LLLT(LOW LEVEL LASER THERAPY) FOR SPINAL CORD REGENERATION

Hi Tiger!

My brother, who is a final year Vet student and wants to specialise in Neorolegy in the final term after his practical says he won't recommend it. I asked him to go through all the documentation I printed of the internet after this discussion started and was also very interested there in. But he knows all the medical terms, so who am I to judge?

We all hope some break through comes our way soon!

Kind regards

Jaco

Saninja,

Do what you are comfortable with. But at the same time recognize that even though non-traditional medicine works in many situations, the traditional medical extablishment will be a long time before they recognize things outside their realm. They rely on what is taught in the medical schools, which are funded by foundations supported by the drug companies, and their thinking has been oriented so they rely on the FDA, which is also heavily drug company influenced. The FDA now has gotten so complex that simply showing that something is non-harmful is not enough. It takes millions of dollars in studies, and years of research, before anything gets approved. For example, even something as simple as treatment of osteoporosis of the wrist with a laser, where a number of studies already existed, required over $5 million in studies, and took over 5 years of beaurocratic steps.

There just is no money for studies for things where the information is generally in the public domain. Doctors discourage use of naturopatic remedies, and have even been reluctant to accept acupuncture, TENS, and even chiropractic, which have been around for years. Various forms of electronic medicine (what has developed into scenars, lasers, magnetic pulse therapy, and electro-stimulation therapy) have been around for over 100 years, and was making progress, especially in the days of Rife, until the medical association and the FDA made their crackdown in the mid-1930s, and at that time actually took equipment away from doctors. Today there has been a lot more progress in reseach from outside North America, where there are less restrictions. The same is true today with their prosecution of doctors and others who actually have gotten results in helping people, various naturopaths, simply because they were outside their ranks. It is not enough that something is not harmful and is actually helping people.

Dear Learning 1,

Oh my goodness….youre an angel! I couldn’t get my questions answered by anyone before…..and you certainly went above and beyond with your very detailed and informative explanation! Thank you so so so very much! I am definitely trying to rig up something to hold the laser in place….I was thinking maybe a Kleenex box plastic cover; but then I worry that the plastic might heat up so I thought maybe the Kleenex box itself (cutting off the bottom and placing the laser through the top hole- so that the end of the laser rests on the opening of the tissue box). I’ll let u know how it works

How long have you had your laser for? After the two weeks, how long do you wait until you resume laser application again? Two months is it? I hope its yielded you positive results! Either way, you are right….never give up trying….that’s our family’s motto as well! :)

Thank you again…..it’s such a relief to have my many questions answered so thoroughly

Take Care,

Megan

Mkusiak,

I hope the ideas help. There are no hard and fast guidelies for SCI, and the ideas for applying come from Dr. Anders' experiments with rats, plus other laser applications, and some other SCI treatment comments and other electronic medicine concepts. The two week time frame is what Dr. Anders ran her experiment for, and the time they used the drug that seemed to help with getting past scar tissue (mentioned on the Christoper Reeves Foundation site).

Laser use might also work if run longer. My impression is that Tiger may be trying without a break, but he can shed more light on this. I suspect that part of the reason for the experiments stopping at 2 weeks in the experiments was because of the time intensive nature of the treatment, and for some type of experiment perameters, and with the drug therapy, you don't want to use that type of drugs any longer than you have to for beginning to get results, at least for the initlal trials. Laser seems to do more what drugs do, in that it also seems to provide a stimulation for helping neuron growth.

If you choose to go longer, and if benefits are achieved, then stop laser use at that point when the benefits stop. It probably means that the body has achieved optimum energy at that point, and the body needs a time to absorb and use what it has, and needs time to regroup. At that point, you can look at working on, and stimulating, a different part of the body to see if you can begin getting the body to call for neuron growth.

If you strart getting benefit, and after a break of laser use at the point the benefits seem to stop, it is probably time to start looking at using it again.

It sounds like the initial results with Dr. Anders' experiments started showing up around 2 weeks later. Whether they would have occurred if the laser use had continued, I don't know, since that wasn't run as part of the experiment. As I read it, with the rats, they kept trying to move after their laser treatment (they were not imobilized), so it was not a period of total inactivity, or totally no stimulation, but it was not an active program of extra stimulation.

The idea of a possible two week break comes from the Christopher Reeves Foundation site, where it is suggested that there be about a 2 week gap between the end of drug treatment (done to reduce the scar tissue and the body's defence mechanisms that normally prevent SCI healing) and intense physio / exercise programs (done to help grow neurons through the area), to avoid some type of cross growth which would defeat the purpose of the scar tissue reduction. From what I've heard, I'm not sure if this type of break is helpful or not when laser is used. Laser more natural and more gentle, and if done right, you are also going beyond the point of injury to stimulate areas below, even going down the spine a bit after the direct use on the areas of injury, and possibly used on the feet for a few minutes also (to try to provide some stimulation calling for the nerves to grow - with a bit of massage on the feet, etc).

Based on the ideas out there, once something is done which reduces the scar tissue and temporarily inhibits the body's natural defence mechanisms (which prevent SCI regrowth naturally), it sounds like it takes some form of stimulation to get the neurons to begin growing, lengthening, etc, past the scar tissue area. The stimulation can be by physio / exercise, or it can be by other means. One experiment in about 2002 used a scenar and seemed to help. The Chinese seem to have used some type of TENS stimulation. A French SCI clinic seems to use acupoint therapy as part of their stimulation. Massage also seems to be something that may help. And it sounds like one of the things that helps with laser or scenar is working down the back a bit, and on the feet, and possibly on the legs. Another stimulation that helped in one London study was cranial magnetic pulse therapy, where they thought that the brain sent signals up to three times as strong as normal down to the point of injury, pushing the body to improve neuron connections - in that experiment they felt it was probably as effective for this stimulation as extensive phsio / exercise therapy.

I have been using a laser for other things since October, and have seen different things laser helps with. Even my 9 year old daughter now comes and gets the laser for sore areas, bug bites, and to speed up healing from different small injuries. After I began seeing benefits from laser use, I heard the comments in the short audio excerpts (links posted earlier on this site) about SCI improvements when a beautician / barber tried an 808 on a couple of her customers and they had improvements. I thought about a friend with SCI and started digging to see if I could find out more so I could help him. Eventually, after I became comfortable with the potential for it being able to help, I shared the basics with my friend, and he is now trying a Vetrolaser, and he seems to be beginning to get some initial small improvements 17 years after his injury (and years without any improvement). I also ran across Tiger's blog here, and his question, shared what I knew, and Tiger decided to try a laser also. It sounds like Tiger is also beginning to notice some things. I understand that Tiger is using his laser on both sides of his spine, and on the injury site, for a total of 20 minutes per day. His laser is 1000 mw total, so the same power with a Vetrolaser would be 100 minutes per day.

L-1, hey great to get your reply. I started w/ the base and then the dio. there is two colored ones for two different purposes. I used the "red" one to get through scar tissue to start the wake up process then and that was when I started getting return to an area that I've not felt in many years, to be con't..Got to go NOW, Creekwater

Thanks Creekwater,

I'm trying to understand what you've set out here - when you get a chance more details would be great.

Let me guess the translation. By "base" do you mean the multi-diode, 5 mw each, base laser with your laser system (which also powers the other lasers)? By "dio" do you mean the separate lasers, which are powered by the main unit, which otherwise function as independent lasers (and the "to colored ones for different purposes" are probably a 660 nm red laser, which which apparently penetrates 1/2 to 1 cm [more for shallow and skin issues], and an 808 nm near-infared laser, which apparently can penetrate 4.5 to 6 cm [this is close to the wave length that Dr. Anders used with her rat experiments]. With both there is a great power loss along the way as depth increases).

When you get a chance, can you mention which of the plug-in lasers you tried, where you tried them, and for how long? Also, did you use in one place or did you use movement, did you use in one spot or a number of spots? Did you try only the area of your injury, or did you try other places, either above or below your injury, to also try to help stimulate neuron growth? This is important to anybody thinking about trying something similar themselves.

Thanks in advance!

An informal report from my friend with SCI (the person who got me looking at, and responding to, this site -complete - approx T12 - injured 17 years ago).

I had lunch with him today and got a brief update. He's been trying a little laser (a Vetro laser - what seems to be the most cost effective 808 nm laser out there), using it regularly on the spinal cord, in his injury site, for what must be close to two months. He didn't supply the exact times or locations used, but it sounds like, when he has the time, he's trying to use it regularly, probably close to an hour or so a day. He says that he's now getting some changes in feeling - the changes so far are little ones, but they seem to be coming. And for no improvements in years, he's happy to see some progress finally, even the little ones he's seeing. Before he wasn't able to feel his toes at all. Now he can feel them a little. He also often had trouble sittling away from his chair. He says he now can sit better outside his chair, and he doesn't tend fall over the same way, and seems to have more strength in that area. He has harington rods in place to support the area, and they don't seem to interfere with the laser.

Another brief update. Had lunch again with my friend with SCI. I had thought his injury was around T12 area, actually turned out to be T9-T10, complete, one vertebrae fractured, the other crushed, with harrington rods in place for support, injury from about 17 years ago.

As reported previously, he was able to sit better outside his chair, and began to feel his toes a little after using a Vetrolaser for a couple months or so. He used it for another month or so after that, and with that, he doesn't slide forward in his chair like he used to, and he has feeling going a bit lower down his back than he's had for the past 17 years.

A couple weeks ago he stopped using it for a bit, and for the past week or so he's been using a little Cosmodic device, a 705 mini (the smallest current vintage cosmodic produced by LET Medical) on his back, hoping to stimulate more neuron growth. He says that leg spasms seemed to increase a little, along with his progress otherwise. To work on the muscle spasms he's going to be trying a little very basic scenar (a RITM home scenar) on his legs and points of spasms, etc, and working to try to overcome years of muscle atrophy.

He's also trying an inexpensive vibration plate to try to begin to overcome some of the leg atrophy (something recommended by an exercise physiologist I know in Colorado). Basic info on vibration plate use for non-SCI situations is at http://www.anti-aging-vibes.com under "vibration exercise". His suggestion was that someone with SCI can sit beside it and put their feet on it, or even sit on it. A less expensive version ($199 US) is available from Showcase, and that's what my friend is trying.

I'll let everybody know how my friend progresses with these.

my grand daughter now she is 15 month old in May 2009 just after her surgery she was affected spinal cord nurve injury not by hitting any thing but reaction of anithesia or some thing else during surgery and she had lost all movements under neck area and her hand and legs were paralise and even she was not able to breathing Dr. advice for ventilation and she convert to ventilater for 12 days at that Dr. says their is no hope you may remove ventilater. After removing ventilater she survive with very dificult breathing but day by day she is improving now she is much better and herlegs and arms are working better but her spinal area (between neck and hips) is not still working

We are interested in LASER THARAPY or any thing else treatment I want to know the right way

Rehana,

The situation you mention with your 15 month old granddaughter is a difficult one. It is something I have not even seen any studies on. Even the published studies seem to stop about 2005, as the researchers seem to have now switched to trying to patent preliminary ideas that worked and helped those with spinal cord related paralysis. So right now, until the researchers take the next step and release patented (and probably much more expensive) technologies, we are left with the results of the initial studies done with spinal cord injuries, the over 3000 studies that show that low level lasers help many situations, and the theory behind low level laser therapy.

Laser and other energy medicine related techologies work by assisting the body to try to heal itself. They do not do the healing. Lasers work at the cellular level, adding energy (photons) to the cells, adding strength to the body's ability to heal. They also increase micro-circulation, increase lymph drainage. Somehow they aid in healing and normally speed up the healing process. With laser and other energy medicine items, it is not specifically the cause of the injury, but the resulting damage that determines the challenges present. Sometimes it helps to identify the cause, though, to see what ideas might help reverse the issues.

You mention that your granddaughter's injury was caused by something in the surgery. Depending on what happened there, possible causes could be an allergic reaction to someting like the anesthetic, having the needle hit the wrong spot during an injection (if done directly in that area of the spinal column, or even something as simple as laying her the wrong way, without proper support, when her muscles were completely relaxed by the anesthetic (i.e. there is at least one recorded cases where someone was very drunk and was laid with his head on the curb, and body on the street - this alone resulted in complete paralysis because the position overstretched the spinal column, and the muscles were too relaxed to support the neck).

With spinal cord injuries, something damages the spinal cord, whether a physical injury or some type of allergic (or similar) reaction. This causes an inflammation in the spinal column area. The body sees injured cells and the defence mechanism kicks in and starts cleaning house, removing the injured or damaged cells. This takes time. If the inflamation can be reduced or controlled immediately, in some cases paralysis has been prevented. Apparently lasers, scenars, cosmodics, and some drugs, can help prevent or reduce the inflammation if used immediately. If there is a delay, the body's clean-up system goes to work, and needed cells are removed, increasing the degree of resulting paralysis.

To the extent that key communication cells (neurons) remain after the injury, and are not removed by the body's clean-up system, once inflammation goes down, and initial recovery occurs, things often improve somewhat. This seems to be what has happened with your granddaughter. She has regained some functionality, which is very good. The challenge is trying to encourage the body to go beyond what is possible initially.

Because of how the body's protection system works, and the confined nature of the spinal column, the body has several built in processes which under normal circumstances prevent cell growth in the spinal column. Basically, the body does not want extra cells growing in this confined area, since in a healty body, this would cause major problems. For some reason, this continues to be the case even after a spinal cord injury. One thing that they have discovered in the last few years is that even the cells in the spinal column are replaced on a regular basis (though the spinal column and brain are the slowest areas for replacing, maybe once every 10 years or so). The problem is that, after an injury, the blue-print that seems to be used for replacing the cells over time is the damaged / injured state that existed after the injury, rather than the original status that existed before it, so under normal circumstances, the injured status is carried forward even though cells are replaced.

From the few published studies (and there are not a lot on spinal cord or nerve injuries), it appears that extensive use of a low level laser on the injury site may, under the right circumstances, inhibit the defence mechanism which prevents neuron re-growth, and allow the body to make progress in trying to bridge the gap. There are apparently a few drugs they have tried (by injection) which may to some extent accomplish the same thing. The exact perameters for what is needed to accomplish this have not been defined, and anything right now is just a guess. Once the defence mechanism is put on hold, and neurons begin to grow, it appears that neuron growth is somehow dependent on some form of stimulation, basically the body's call for a working connection.

You say you are interested in laser therapy or any thing else. Will this techology work? From what I've seen and read, it has aready helped some people who were well past the time when the doctors said they should have improvement. Will it work for everybody? Only time will tell. Part of the situations where it seems to have helped is regular use. But some have reported extra muscle spasms also. To date we don't know if the muscle spasms are related to what they are trying, if they are part of the recovery process, and if there is a connection, what that connection is. To date, it appears that with the less severe paralysis, the minor muscle spasms may be a good sign, since improvement has occurred after the spasms. Those with more significant, higher up, paralysis may at times have more or greater spasms (from those who have reported results), and with some there are not yet any reported results otherwise.

When I get more time, I'll put down some extra thoughts. 808 nm to 810 nm lasers seem to be the key ones that have helped with spinal cord injuries to date. Resonating lasers in at least some situations may have helped start the process, and helped energize the body. And a different technology, cosmodic (the advanced version of scenar) also seems to hold a lot of hope.

Learning 1

I am very impress about your response I feel that this is your family matter thankyou very much

my baby is improving day by day and her problem is minimise to spinl area normall phisio therapy is applied regularly since 5 months

In my contry Pakistan there is no Laser therapy of spinal nerve I dont know in our case Laser therapy is neccesary or not

I want detail adress or any contacts I want to direct comminicate with Drs. or institutions Once again thankyou very much you and inspire team who work for better now I am also part of inspire team and want to work for better togather

Learning 1

I am very impress about your response I feel that this is your family matter thankyou very much

my baby is improving day by day and her problem is minimise to spinl area normall phisio therapy is applied regularly since 5 months

In my contry Pakistan there is no Laser therapy of spinal nerve I dont know in our case Laser therapy is neccesary or not

I want detail adress or any contacts I want to direct comminicate with Drs. or institutions Once again thankyou very much you and inspire team who work for better now I am also part of inspire team and want to work for better togather

Yes I read that you need to begiven meds to see if it will do any good, thay are looking into it.

Tim-quadyame

Quantum Neurology/George Gonzalez, DC may be of interest to this forum. Dr. Gonzalez has researched and developed neurological evaluation and rehabilitation treatment protocols that help neurological injuries using red and infrared light therapy.

I haven't heard about cold laser being used in spinal cord regeneration but here's my story: My dog had developed these sores on her legs. She licked them constantly. I tried EVERY kind of medicine and tried ointments that were suppose to discourage her from licking (Lick Guard, etc.). None worked. Then my vet recommend some "Cold Laser Therapy". I was extremely skeptical. Two treatments and the sores were scabbed over!! In a week they were HEALED!!! Later she got her tail injured. It looked awful. All the hair had fallen out at the injury site and was oozing pus. She wouldn't let me touch her tail and cried out in pain when I attempted to treat it with meds. I took her back to the same vet. Two treatements and it was HEALED!! Then I developed bursitis in my knee (technically: Pes Anserine Bursitis). I was in extreme pain and could barely walk! My only treatment was anti-inflamatory meds, a knee brace and time. I was offered a cortisone shot but I didn't want a needle stuck into my knee. I decided to approach the vet and ask him if I could put the laser on my knee. He let me do it. Within 24 hours I was WALKING with NO limp. After 48 hours I completely forgot about my knee pain! I'm currently looking into getting a unit to use at home.