Transition To All Natural Blood Thinners

billyj2323
  • By billyj2323 · January 26, 2013 at 9:50 pm · 63 replies
  • In Experiences with alternative treatments
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Does anyone know how to safely transition from prescribed blood thinners (plavix and asprin) to all natural blood thinners, such as curcumin, vitamine E, Fish oil, and or Vitamin K2? Understand everyone body type is different but how long can I reasonably expect the transition period to last? I have serious safety concerns about the combonation of plavix and asprin and would like to safely transition to all naturals as soon as possible.

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63 replies    Reply

laurali

If you are considering making these substitutions, I would hope that you thoroughly research the effects of Vitamin E. (and the others on your list as well). Vit E, for example, was touted back in the 1990s for all sorts of things -- after taking it for several years, I began reading /hearing about studies in the mid 2000s that indicated that this could be damaging to the heart. My mother was told never to take Vit. K without a complete lab work-up.
What do you think is "unnatural" about aspirin? It has been used for centuries!! If you are concerned about your doctor's prescription for a combination of plavix and aspirin -- talk to him/her re rationale/need, the dosages, and discuss whether aspirin alone would be sufficient for your condition. laurali

Threesacharm

You need to add more info. Like, do you have a stent? Have you had a heart attack? How long have you been on plavix and aspirin and why? Nobody wants to take plavix and aspirin and everybody has safety concerns about them. I had huge risk taking plavix, but I took it for a year following my stent. "All natural" blood thinners have risks too, and issues with quality control, dosing etc., so out of the frying pan into the fire is not really a good move. Certainly you should be discussing this with your cardiologist, but I am suspecting a cardiologist is not going to recommend coming off plavix and aspirin and taking supplements instead. Personally it is something I would never do nor recommend anyone do and I think it would be actually irresponsible to answer your question if you are considering making that decision without the advise of a cardiologist. There are many here who use supplements in addition to their meds, but I don't think people use them instead of their meds. It is your heart. You only have one. Please talk to your doc about this.

cajngrl

There is no proven way, that I know of. You see the supplement industry has NO DEFINITIVE PROOF that supplements are good alternative treatment methods.

billyj2323

Thanks for everyone's input. And of course I would not make a move of this sort independent of my cardiologist. I've been on Plavix and aspirin for about a year and a half following a heart attack. And yes, I have stints. IMy concerns stems from the fact that I have read a lot of information about the numerous and dangerous side effects of plavix and aspirin--particularly when combined. I am seeking an alternative without the dangerous side effects. At this time I am simply in research mode. I would never make this transition based solely on independent internet research, but I would like to get input from people that are more knowledgeable about it and have actually made the transition. I would like to be as informed as possible before speaking with my cardiologist about alternative options, since his initially response will likely be NO, as Threesacharm stated.

cajngrl

Keep in mind that the side effects are only "possible" and just because something is listed as a possible side effect, doesn't mean it will happen. In fact, if you do some research, the chances of you developing "dangerous" side effects from Plavix and aspirin are low. Millions of peeps take these two drugs everyday...millions. Only a small amount of those millions experience dangerous side effects.

For most of us, the benefits far outweigh the possible side effects.

Threesacharm

When you say you have already made the transition does this mean that you have stopped taking aspirin and plavix? I would never, ever do this without a cardiologists approval. So if you have already done this, how long ago? Outside of the US most of us only take plavix for a year anyway, but we still take aspirin. I take aspirin even though I have a brain aneurysm. Do you think I would take that risk if I didn't absolutely believe I had to? I am a very well informed person about my heart disease, I read a ton of information, studies, keep up to date and have university biology and chemistry courses so I understand a fair amount of the mechanics when it comes to the drugs and interactions. So my choice to take plavix and aspirin, given the risk it could actually cause death if my aneurysm were to leak, is based on the absolute necessity to do so based on available medical literature. There just are no good studies which indicate any of those supplements can provide you with the same cardio protective properties as dual anti platelet therapy. Don't be sucked in by the words all natural. Hemlock is all natural, ricin is all natural, arsenic is all natural. Did you know the ace inhibitors are actually synthesized pit viper venom? I guess that would be all natural then. Lots of people support using natural supplementation and there are naturopaths and osteopaths and homeopaths who advise on those, and maybe this is a good route for otherwise healthy people. You had a heart attack, you are not healthy. Hey, it is always your choice, your body and you get to choose what to do with it, I just call it the way I see it and it is of course my own opinion, many would not agree with me on this. I urge caution that is all. We here were really lucky to survive our heart attacks, we just don't want anybody to risk themselves. Good post though, I think lots of people want to know this stuff too, so it is always good to raise issues that can benefit everyone. Peace.

cajngrl

Threesacharm, go back and ready, Billy2323 hasn't made the transition yet, but is seeking advice from peeps who may have successfully made the transition.

Billy2323, keep us posted on what your cardio doc says about this. I know mine would never allow me to transition from prescribed meds to natural alternatives.

Threesacharm

Yes, you are right, I was reading billy2323 last post and misread "have actually made the transition". My apologies for the misunderstanding. Yes billy 2323 do keep us posted, my cardio would have the screaming meemies if I suggested dropping aspirin. He won't even consider five days off for surgery. Maybe your cardiologist is different and certainly if you have done the research it helps your case and the discussion. Laurali had a good suggestion to ask whether aspirin alone would be sufficient at this point given that many people only take plavix for a year. Good luck.

billyj2323

Good point and thanks for the advise. I really appreciate your passion. :-) I have an appointment with my doctor this week. I will let you know the outcome. I highly doubt he will be jumping for joy when I bring up the idea of alternatives. That's why I thought it would be a good idea to do my homework and give examples of folks that have actually done it (and how they did it). I do like the idea of inquiring if aspirin alone will be enough. I will let you know what he says. Thanks again for your input!

Threesacharm

There are lots of studies on dual anti platelet therapy which suggest plavix for one year then aspirin. The American heart association recommendation is for plavix for one year. There's also a French and Brazilian study. The Harvard study isn't due out until 2014 which may change how dapt is done. In Canada, and many other countries plavix is stopped at a year unless there is a compelling reason. Risk of thrombosis after one year is statistically very low, but it does happen. I was nervous coming off plavix, but it definitely improved my quality of life. Your safety is always paramount and your doc will always have that as his number one priority.

billyj2323

Wow--great information! Thanks!

billyj2323

Follow-up: I spoke with my cardiologist about the plavix/aspirin combo. He agreed to take me off the plavix and go with just the aspirin. I think it helped when I referenced the case studies that showed a lot of people have successfully come off plavix after a year and went with aspirin only. I didn't even have to mention the AHA recommendation. I told him I would like to start taking vitamins and supplements to help manage some of my other health issues (I'm diabetic as well). The only problem is that some of these supplements can thin the blood. He didn't seem particularly supportive but wasn't totally resistent either.

cajngrl

Billy2323, thanks for the update.

Your doctor probably had the nonchalant response because there is no supporting evidence to show that supplements help improve our conditions, no matter what the condition is. Mine told me that if he were me, he would not spend extra $ on things that just aren't proven.

It really is a darn shame that the supplement industry is a multi billion dollar a year industry and there are no regulations, therefore they are not required to follow any of the stringent rules and testing that drug companies have to adhere to.

With that said, I do take fish oil and a good multi vitamin every day! :)

Pooi

I use USANA supplements. Their products are manufactured under strict GMP.

cajngrl

Pooi, its great to hear USANA adheres to strict good manufacturing practices, however GMPs do nothing for determining if supplements are actually effective. Basically, all that gives you is comfort in knowing that, hopefully, your supplements were manufactured under the highest of standards.

Travellygirl

You can never go wrong by taking fish oil, tumeric (powder cheaper than curcurmin) and garlic. Vitalzyme is something else I took. I got off the Plavix after a year and have been taking supplements along with my metoprolol and 81mg of aspirin. Glad to hear you're looking into alternatives and good luck to you!

Chesterbust

I would just google search the supplements you want to take and look at the studies yourself. I have posted some positive studies, perhaps the problem is that they are not from a source considered definative? I have been using natural products and remedies all my life to the health of my entire familly. The natural health industry is multi billion but the pharmacutical industry has become multi trillion, likely so they can pay for all the law suits they have to answer to.
http://www.drugwatch.com/dangerous-drugs.php
I read what was good for the heart esp coronary heart desease and I am taking it. The supplements you mention I take save for the vinigar, although that is a good one too. Wonder who makes the dough with all the vinigar and garlic and fish oil? These are proven in studies that they good for us and effective remedies.

I have been researching meadowsweet, a flower that has the benifits of aspirin without the toxidity, and yes aspirin is toxic.

http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_meadowsweet.htm#!/exjun_
There are studies galore to find on the internet regarding the effectiveness of natural remedies.

I have not had a heart attack but I am experiencing chest pain and so I am using the natural things that promoted my health over many years. My father died of coronary heart desease at 49. I am 56 and have I believe a genetic disposition to this disease.
My goal is to take natural preventatives that do no harm taken as directed and reverse the problem, however tomorow I will be back with an answer from a natural healthfood store for the direction to the most credible studies of how well they work for the job they say they can do.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/prodnatur/faq/question_general-eng.php
Health Canada says they are regualted for ingredients and doses, just not labled as to the things they can heal. If you think Health Canada is a good research source then at least on the quality and consistant dosage of the products you have no worries.
I am told clearly by some heart patients that after damage is done the natural remedies are not strong enough, and so I am researching to explain why so many of us have thrived using them, and how effective they are included in a treatment program etc.
Transitioning, I will ask about that too, do you need to transition from one to the other if they do the same job?
Some drugs need to be tapered off, I am not sure about the ones you mention….yet.
Back at you tommorow.

billyj2323

Wow--good info Chesterbust. I will check out the websites you listed. I have been doing extensive research from various respected sources such as Pubmed and even the Physician Desk Reference (PDR). The more I learn, the more I'm convinced that natural herbs and supplements are definitely beneficial. My personal update: About a month or so ago, my heart doc referred me to a kidney specialist because my kidney markers were "off." Turns out, all the heart meds I was on was causing my kidneys to fail! I was shocked. My kidney doctor immediately took me off literally half my meds to give my kidneys a break. Shortly after, I started taking supplements for diabetes and high blood pressure (with the concurrence of my primary doc). Long story short, I went back to see my heart doc a few days ago and although he seemed aggitated that the kidney doc altered my meds, and the primary doc OK'd the supplements, he couldn't deny the fact that my numbers were much better. Plus I felt much better. I've actually felt better this past month, than I have in years--much more energy and mental alertness. I feel like I'm back in the game again! My final goal is to replace the aspirin (325 mg) with something with fewer side effects. I'm confident I can do it, but not without my heart doc being on board. That's because my blood has to be tested frequently during the transition. And he is not a fan. He is not a fan of any supplements or herbs--only pharmaceuticals. But if I had only listened to him, my kidneys would have failed by now.

billyj2323

Oh, and thanks Travellgirl for the info. I hadn't heard of Vitalzyme. I'll do some research.

Chesterbust

Hi Billy, I am so glad to get this reply, thankyou.

I wrote a post on another discussion about a good but somewhat expensive one source natural remedy from "Strause the Herb Comapny"

If you google it you can see the studies and the asserions that their heart product, Strause Heartdrops contains a combination of herbs and garlic for most heart symptoms, and it will, if you buy in bulk and take it for the recommended year bring your numbers of chest pain episodes down by 60 sdomthing percent and bring the severity of chest pain episodes down 60 something % as well.

It can be taken in junction with orthadox methods of healing.

Also cholestral and thinning the blood (cayenne pepper) the whole bit.

I am going to get the big bottle for next time as it will last half a year and cost(and I havent shopped around yet) 120 in the pricey health food stores. I got enough to last me till next pay though.

You can begin getting results at a week to four weeks and I was told that very ill heart patients have taken the one large bottle and began to recover very well. It is perscribed by medical docotors in Gernany where it was made and is controlled by a regulatory body, does studies,

By the way one of the regulation criteria is that the product DOES WHAT IT SAYS IT WILL DO. Having had success with natural products I am sure that like me you have grown to trust them and that you also trust your care provider and follow advice whenever possible

Also that none of the subjects in the study had as much as a single adverse reaction to the remedy and all showed improvements. Even those with other damaged organs.

I am very hopefull it will be the preventative for me too. The subjects were also on an average of seven medications and there are no counterindications except you not be pregnant, breastfeeding or within 24 hours of surgery.


I qoted directly from the information I found on this product on a pain management site I believe

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