Spasms - How do they feel to you? - Discussion - WomenHeart Support Community

By bettyboop48
Posted July 17, 2008 at 6:15 pm

I had the same thing happen to me and it would wake me up in the middle of the nite i called my cardio doc and she said that she was glad that i called she up one of my meds and that seemed to help if i were you i would call them and see what they can do for you . I understand that going to the doc stinks but you never know what it is it may be nothing but why chance it. well take it easy take care

((((((hugs)))))

terry

By lkay
Posted July 17, 2008 at 8:27 pm

That sure sounds like the spasms I experience nightly - and I really like your analogy of labor pains. They definitely wake you out of a deep sleep.

I am now on imdur 30mg and it helped at first but the spasms are back to happening several times a night. When the pain becomes too intense I do take a nitro and that gives immediate relief. And yes, I did call the cardio office today to ask about the increase and expect tomorrow to add either more imdur or a ccb to my drug regimen.

Because this is a new symptom for you I would at least call the doctors office and discuss it with your medical team.

Yes, it is tiring to always be calling and seeing them but don't wait until you're in crisis.

My best,
Laura

By kwinner
Posted July 18, 2008 at 1:18 am

I'm such a nag - call the doctor, call the doctor, call the doctor!

Here are mine: The small ones feel like someone has their hand around your heart and they're squeezing with relatively mild pressure on your heart. The whoppers, an 18 wheeler has parked on my chest, the hand that was squeezing has become a vice, and there's nothing mild about it! The pain is crushing. Spasms can vary in intensity, because the level of constriction can vary. You can have one, or many in a night/day. They can wake you up, they can kick you in the butt! They can cause heart attacks, so please don't mess around with them, call the doc (there I go nagging again). You need to have it evaluated, and if it is spasms, you need to be treated with meds. It can take time to get the right meds, so please, don't wait, for yourself and your family. And let us know how you're doing.
Hugs,
K

By arabianhorselover
Posted July 18, 2008 at 8:06 am

For me, it's the bad heartburn sort of feeling. Just really a yucky feeling. Can start with nausea.

By noble1128
Posted July 18, 2008 at 9:43 am

Thanks so much ladies, I knew I could count on you! I will call my cardio doc today and ask them about it. I'll just have to find a time to sneak away here at work and find a confidential spot to call. I hate making health/personal/family related calls at work. EVERYONE hears every word you say! That in itself stinks!

By lkay
Posted July 18, 2008 at 10:49 am

I also sit in a very public office space and most times I don't mind it because that is part of my job. But making these calls is difficult, especially when you have to usually talk to someone and they relay it to the doctor and then they have to call you back. Good luck.

Call anyway - it's important!
Laura

By TexRose
Posted July 18, 2008 at 11:29 am

My cardiac spasms (prinzmetal angina) to "Me" are worst than Labor pains. My Cardio and one at Cleveland Clinic said these spasms vary in degree but those who have the most severe kind that last 30 minutes and longer can lead to a heart attack. I suffered with these for years before I was diagnosed.
They are microvascular and cannot be seen via testing. Sometimes an EKG taken in the thrones of these attacks can show some changes but not enough for an ER doctor to raise the red flag.
The Cardio's said enough of these Micro small vessel attacks can lead to a full grown heart attack in one of the main arteries. Yes, that is what happened to me.
Calcium Channel Blockers are a good drug for this and so are Nitrates. Lessening stress and eating a low salt..low fat diet, can help. Sometimes these attacks disappear in time, never to return but they must be treated.
My attacks always start with pain in the right middle upper abdomen and quickly travel to the right jaw and then to the left jaw all the while intensifying in pain. Then the whole chest gets into the act and the lower teeth. Sometimes I sweat...Sometimes the left arm becomes numb. I went on like this for years before I asked for Nitro from a Nimbo Cardiologist in 2000. Then I knew they were heart related as one Nitro would ease the attack within 5 minutes. The last three attacks were three Nitro ones. Not good. They are dillegently searching for answers. I am a difficult case I was told.
TR

By Melicious
Posted July 18, 2008 at 2:43 pm

Hi Kwinner,
Your description of spasms is just as I have experienced them. The whoppers were just terrifying. I haven't had one (fingers crossed) since I was put on medication, but still experience the small ones and angina pain.

Hi Noble
Do go to see your doctor and don't be put off. It took me nearly 12 months to get someone to listen, but I'm so glad I perservered. God bless, I hope you get some help.

By noble1128
Posted July 18, 2008 at 3:22 pm

Sorry, one more question...how do I know its not indigestion or a gallbladder attack? I know that with women we are such complex creatures and I don't want to mistake this as something less serious. I do have an appointment with my GP on Tuesday afternoon. Is that soon enough or do I really need to call my cardio doc?

By kwinner
Posted July 18, 2008 at 4:01 pm

The problem is you don't know. Typically they take the backdoor method of diagnosing coronary vasospasms - they do the GI thing first. DO NOT go that road. It's a long and winding one, have the heart checked out first, as long as you have a cardiologist, use him. If he does diagnositcs on you and it's not cardiac, then go the GI route. I had a GI refuse to do an endoscopy on me because my symptoms were classis for MI - thankfully they didn't, and I was send to a cardiologist immediatly and diagnosed soon after (soon being a relative term, I'd been having these attacks for more than a year and my GP decided at the start I was too young for it to be my heart - guess what doc?!) - of course I'd already had an MI - but better late than never I suppose. Please, please go to the cardio first. Write down times, dates, severity, symptoms. Do you have nitro? If you take one, do the spasms stop? GI spasms are also affected by nitro, so it's not sure thing, but it is at least a piece of the puzzle.

I'm not trying to freak you out, but I had my MI during the time they swore it was reflux, so please don't ignore it, and I'm hoping with you it's something less serious too!
Hugs,
K

By noble1128
Posted July 18, 2008 at 5:13 pm

K,

I've never suffered with reflux only mild heartburn or indigestion. I usually avoid those foods that would cause it. I have never been dx'd with vasospasms or any spasm, the two to three episodes that I did have occurred back to back nights and then the following morning. I did not recall having been woken up last night by a spasm like I did on Tues/Wed nights this week. The duration was about 5 mins max as I fell back to sleep shortly after they began. The severity was minor/mild in pain and that's why I related them to the early on-set of labor pains. But they were strong enough to wake me up. That is why I was concerned. I really am leary about calling the cardio from work, as there really isn't a private place to go without causing others to investigate (say closing someone else's office door to use their phone).

I will definitely be keeping a log of my symptoms since my last visit with my cardio was not very productive. She suggested I speak with my GP about the strain or pain I had been feeling in my neck and arm since she had cleared me of major heart problems by doing the stress/echo, the EKG and a halter monitor.

I promise to stay on top of things, really I will!

By noble1128
Posted July 18, 2008 at 5:15 pm

P.S. My muscles spasm because of fibro (legs, arms, etc.)...so could my heart (being a muscle also) be spasming? Hmmm...

By gracie62
Posted July 18, 2008 at 8:55 pm

Noble:
A wise lady on this board educated me after I was diagnosed with coronary artery spasms. She told me that people with coronary artery spasms often get the same spasms in other parts of their bodies. Just as the arteries in your heart constrict and cause the spasms, the arteries in other areas can do the same. That was a "Eureka" moment for me. For months I had been having spasms in my legs, shoulders, neck, jaw and rib cage. Once I was diagnosed with coronary artery spasms and went on calcium channel blockers, my spasms all over went down to minimal. I recently had an eye exam at my cardios urging and was told I am having spasms in the arteries of my eyes. This was right about the time they were upping my calcium channel blocker so I am hoping that takes care of them.

Please be aware that the chicken and the egg question could apply here - was the fibro before the chest problem or could the chest spasms have been there all along and caused the others? Just a thought.

The best way to describe my spasms - with me, I get crushing pain, but from the inside. With my heart attack, I felt like something sitting on my chest pressing in. With my spasms, it feels like something is trying to get OUT of my chest. I feel like it will explode - similar to the birth theory, I suppose. Best of luck to you!

Dianna

By Nancy45
Posted July 18, 2008 at 11:17 pm

My first posting. I have had 17 heart caths, 6 stents, and an ICD since August, 2001. It has been a difficult journey, and I am married to an orthopedic surgeon who is now beyond understanding why some cardiologist somewhere can't just FIX this with surgery. (I did say he was a surgeon: "A chance to cut is a chance to cure" would be his motto!) At any rate, I have had all of the above but am not able to take any of the drugs that would help me because I am hypOtensive, so these drugs lower my blood pressure to the point of maybe crawling speed.
Because I don't want anyone to be misled, let me emphasize that what happened to me will/has ever happened to anyone else. I have had 3 cervical disc surgeries since 2004; each time the rupture was at a different level. A ruptured cervical disc (neck) causes almost the exact same pain as a "classic" heart attack does. You will remember though that as women we don't have "classic" heart pain. At any rate, I have had bursitis over the years in my hip and shoulder. Last year, I asked my husband to inject my left shoulder with cortisone as he had done before as I had determined that I was not having a heart problem. He, of course, insisted on a complete exam and informed me that it was not my shoulder, but a ruptured disc as level 4-5, mainly because 3 fingertips in my left hand felt numb/tingling, and he could reproduce the exact pain by his exam. (What a treasure he is.) We went to the neurosurgeon and within 5 days I'd had the surgery, done great, gone home. The lastest disc surgery does not require a neck brace. One month later, another level ruptured. One month later, my NEW cardiologist did a diagnostic cath and stented x3 the LAD. 4 months later, they had restenosed, and I had the Big Daddy stent put in after they used a balloon cutter to get through the stenosed stents. I ended up in a "perfect storm." Discouragingly, it seems to get only worse.
These are some of the things I have learned:
1. Never be afraid to keep changing doctors until you
find one who will really listen and work with you.
Also, try to find one who knows how to use the
IVUS---a tiny little camera--as part of his cath
protocol. Beware of the "cath jockeys"--the guys
who are always trying to beat their own time taken
doing a cath procedure as in " I can do a cath in
15 minutes." I want the doctor to take
his time and REALLY look. Also, ask for a computer
disc of your procedure so you can have it if you
are traveling (as happened to me) and need a
doctor new to you to be able to put that disc on
a computer and see exactly what has been done
to your heart already. Gives both of you a huge
advantage and saves money.
2. Sometimes, it really is something else. There is a
new phenomonen out there now called cholestrolosis which means so much cholestrol is being taken off by the statins that it produces a "sludge" in the gall bladder and a lot of pain like heart pain. Surgery is the only cure for that. (I found this out after stent #2 thinking I was having another heart problem.)
It could be your neck. All of this requries extensive, expensive testing, and no, I don't get a discount! But, PLEASE DO NOT GO TO "NECK" FIRST--GO TO "HEART" first!!!
3. Until someone FAMOUS gets this and goes public, women's heart research funds will never get the attention breast cancer does, and my mother died of that from lack of education 36 years ago way too young.
4. I have yet to ever have chest pain. All my pain is between my shoulder blades. Try convincing a doctor that it really is your heart as I did for 2 long years, and I was not an "uninformed" patient. I knew what was wrong. No power of persuasion I guess. I had to try to die to get anyone to believe me!
5. These spasms are indeed dangerous, but do not seem to be taken very seriously by most cardiologists.
I know I could think of more points. And yes, I have been treated at 2 of the top 10 heart hospitals in the country.
I am by nature a "let's get this show on the road." I have offered my services as helping in gathering anecdotal research of women's heart health to 4 cardiologists at large research center hospitals. No takers; just not that interested.
But we press on, do we not? It is, after all, in the Lord's hands, and I will not go one moment before my appointed time. (Psalm 139).
We "hang together or we hang separately" as the saying goes.

By kwinner
Posted July 18, 2008 at 11:47 pm

Nancy - Really good points!!

Noble - do you have a cell phone you could call them from on a break or at lunch? Just be careful, I never had heartburn either, but took all the meds and did the tests like a good girl knowing full well that wasn't the problem. Do what you need to do to get the answers you need. Typical variant angina (Prinzmetal's) happens at night, it's a resting angina so isn't effected by exertion - makes no logical sense, and they don't know what causes it, but it is more common than people think for just the reasons Nancy said, doctors don't tend to take them very seriously, or look for them intentionally until they've exhausted every other option, and it often remains undiagnosed.

Be well, and keep us posted.
K

By lkay
Posted July 19, 2008 at 9:24 am

Wow Nancy,
You have been through a lot (I know that's an understatement!) and your post has a ton of stuff in it.

Of particular interest to me is the gallbladder sludge/cholesterol dumping connection. Was the surgery gallbladder removal I assume? I've posted here about GB sludge but no one brought up this connection. My HIDA scan came out ok but I personally did not see the results. I was told I could keep my GB. When I was researching GB sludge I found no mention of this link - can you refer me to someplace online for more details?

Mine was an MI caused by spasm and my cardio takes this seriously - we're still searching for something that works for me.

Be well,
Laura

By Nancy45
Posted July 19, 2008 at 11:05 am

I had a HIDA scan which did not show this condition because there were no stones. It was the blood work which confirmed the diagnosis.
Can you believe I can't remember which tests after about 20,000? The GB removal is done through a scope and should take about 20-30 min. tops. After 1 hour, my husband who was back in the surgical suite out of sight, began to be nervous (and he is NEVER nervous) After 2 hours, he'd decided I'd died and they were trying to resusitate me. After 2 and 1/2 hours, he just barged right on back and was caught at the door. The sludge had spilled out of my GB and the surgeon had to "peel" (okay, this may be TMI for some) other organs away from the sludge attached firmly to GB. The sludge became "glue". It was my general surgeon who told me he was seeing this more and more and that they had named it "cholestrolosis" because they had traced it back to the dumping of so much cholestrol from the statins into the gallbladder. All these drugs have to go somewhere. (I have learned this from my husband--that's why we have side effects.) Usually they are processed through the stomach, gall bladder, liver, etc. What I have not chased down is without a GB, are the statins dumping into the liver bigtime (which I do have bldwk on all the time)? I do take a very small dose which again is frustrating because high cholestrol is my sole factor for heart disease. If any of you have not had the UC Berkeley heart panel testing (blood work), now available everywhere, I encourage you to do so. The test tells you exactly why you have heart disease in a very detailed manner. Mine turned out to be genes and they were designer genes, not levis or wranglers because both my son and daughter have this same gene. It's only distinguishing factor is that one's body produces more cholestrol than it can possibly take care of even with diet or drugs. Basically, my every artery and vessel have some cholestrol deposits in them.
We have to know more about the Prinzmetal spasms, and I haven't yet figured out how to get my current dr. to be serious about them.

By lkay
Posted July 19, 2008 at 11:19 am

Nancy,
If you wake up in the middle of the night and the test name comes to you, please let me know. I am interested in pursuing this.

I am also hypotensive like you - my normal bp is 90/60- drops to nothing on meds. I have no cholesterol issues now - lipitor 80mg dropped my total panel to 126 and I am off statins for now. Need to be retested here soon to see if that low number has been maintained by diet and some exercise.

I'm pursuing what looks like will be a prinzmetal diagnosis and have just about eliminated every other possible cause, including the GI tests. The nightly spasms are getting very old after about 6 months.

My best,
Laura

By Nancy45
Posted July 19, 2008 at 12:57 pm

Laura,
Thanks for your replies. I have been on this site for a long time but never participated. I will ask my husband what the name of the test was that showed I had a gall bladder problem. It was a condition that was only going to worsen according to General Surgeon.
Physically, I am failing fairly rapidly these days. Almost 2 years ago I had a V-tach episode after a cath within 30 min before leaving the hospital. Thankfully, I did not know then that once V-tach starts, it never ends, only worsens ending in what we call "sudden death" which is always a surprise to everyone. It's never gone off, but the pacemaker is pacing my heart which no one expected. I have reached the point of diminishing returns with nitro which is the only thing that relieves these spasms.
My dr. did tell me nitro will, at some point, cease to be effective if too much is taken. This past week, over 2 days, I was taking one nitro every 15 min to get 5 min of pain relief. Nothing shows except "abnormal ECG" which EVERYONE who has ever had any kind of heart event will forever have and then they seem to be read as "normal" unless you are having an actual full-blown heart attack which I have never had--just "events"--the kind no one wants to be invited to.
I now know that unless I could live hooked up to the ECG machine, my heart "incidents" (spasms) will never show unless I had one while on the machine.
BUT, let me assure you, that a sense of humor is part and parcel of who I am, and my family has the same thing. They continually tell me when they can't find me via phone, cell or home, that they thought I must have had The Big One and failed to notify them!
2 weeks ago after being hospitalized yet again with a significant "sinking spell," I got caught for 8 hours in nuclear stress lab (forgot about me which I STRONGLY complained about to those in authority). I was just so out of it, I didn't realize so much time had gone by. My husband was in our hometown caught in 2 July 4th trauma surgeries and so I was alone. When no one could find me, he announced, "If she's having a bypass and didn't call me, I'm really going to have my feelings hurt!" So you can see, we all try not to let this rule our lives. We are going fly-fishing in Montana this week. I will do what I feel like I can and not worry about the rest. It is what it is.
Nancy

By kareno
Posted July 19, 2008 at 2:13 pm

I have spasms that sound like the ones TexRose has experienced. The smaller ones are like someone is squeezing my heart and I often wake up having these. They usually last only around 5 minutes if I lay there quietly. I have had some that are worse and need to take the nitro as they do not go away and are much more severe. I told my cardiologist and he said "he thinks I have small vessel disease, as my last cath was okay". He didn't seem too concerned even though I was. He said keep the nitro handy!!! Take one every 5 minutes until three times and then if the pain is still there go to the ER. I don't like the I "think" it is small vessel disease and I wish he would not seem so casual about it. He is my second cardiologist and up until now has been very attentive. I often think he is tired of my complaining about things and now sort of brushes me off with vague answers. I do not know where to turn as for some reason am not taken seriously, maybe because I am a fit looking female. My MI was also because no one believed me!! Three weeks of pain and doctor, ER visits until I finally just had the heart attack. This possibly could have been avoided had I been taken seriously. I feel for all of you with the chest pain and discomfort. The spasms never seem to come when in the presence of the doctor, during and EKG, or catherization. At least for me. Noble just keep looking for answers. Hopefully someone will have some GOOD answers soon. Kareno

Spasms - How do they feel to you?

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