Coreg (yes again...)

In my last discussion called divorced my doctor, I mentioned that he said that my body was undoubtedly been going thru beta withdrawal, since I was on too low of a dose of coreg, he's upped me to 6.25 to start and says if I have problems that he will more than likely up that dose instead of lowering it as one might anticipate. After years on inderal 40 3/day this was alot of beta in me..

Now the second point is timing of this pill as brought up by mary, does anyone else feel a "strange needy sensation" when it's time to take their first or second dose. It makes me wonder about why they made the Coreg CR, I wonder if alot of folks can't wait to get their dose & that the CR (continuous release) eliminated that feeling. My old cardio says that the CR made two of her PT's EF drop within weeks, she was not a fan of CR, I'm no longer a fan of her expertise but I am also not a fan of how exp that drug is right now..

I wonder if studies are out there (if there was enough time) to see EF results of coreg vs coreg cr.

I'll try to find some

Another question I have for those reg corgers is this, do you drink caffeine? I gave it up 3 yrs ago although I drink either Caffix located in the HealthFS of bigger grocery stores OR I drink decaf louisanne which is half chicory.. does a dose of caffeine help any of you with the sluggies?

And finally the exercise intolerance which is clearly visable when starting this med does it gradually dissipate?

Anything you can think of to aid us along would be great.. I know I have asked these questions before but it's not only for me but for the daily newbies that feel frustrated..

thanks in advance for your anticipated input..

Heart sister Denise

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2 items I found, somewhat technical but if you have medical background they may be interesting reads:

.....it is somewhat ambiguous to label Carvedilol, an "alpha-beta blocker" since it does have rather weak "alpha-receptor" blocking action, it should more appropriately be termed a "non-selective beta-blocking agent".........it stands alone in a class by itself in it's effectiveness in treatment of intractable congestive heart failure, and is almost always on the med regimen for the end-stage cardiomyopathic awaiting heart transplantation and SHOULD NOT be compared to other beta blockers(metoprolol, atenolol, propranolol, etc) as it's action's are not totally understood in the treatment of heart disease, and in particular left ventricular impairment......in the past the "gold standard" for treatment of end stage CHF was AVOIDANCE of beta blocking agents as they tended to worsen left ventricular function, carvedilol is the exception to the rule and is not a simple med for first line or primary BP management..........there is NO med "better" than carvedilol for it's intended and presently applied uses.....it is yet not understood exactly why this med works in a paradoxically advantageous way for folks with end stage CHF...........it is "nonselective" in beta blockade in that it has beta-1 and beta-2 receptor blocking action........most other beta-blocking agents used these days for 1st line and/or primary BP control are selective beta-1 agents (beta-1 agent effects are active in a selective manner on "cardiovascular" receptor sites; beta-2 agent effects are mor broad and active on receptor sites in the pulmonary tree and those of the cardiovascular system)....so those with lung disease, emphysema and COPD are safer with a "beta-1 selective" med which minimizes effect on pulmonary function..............
Source(s):
32 years experience in Cardiovascular Surgical ICU & CV pharmacology


Beta blockers block the action of endogenous catecholamines (epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline) in particular), on β-adrenergic receptors, part of the sympathetic nervous system which mediates the "fight or flight" response." (Wikipedia)

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Hello, Interestingcase:
I, too, am on Coreg 3.125 twice a day - and I, too, want off! Why, if you are willing to share, does your brother suggest you get off the Coreg?
PatriciaSami, CHFer

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Hi, DenisePA:
Thank you for the post on Carvedidol. Would you add the website information from where you got this, please?
Thanks!
PatriciaSami

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Denise, thanx for the info on the Louisane. I am going to contact them.I am curious too about studies on Coreg vs Coreg CR. I do think that this is some gimmick from the drug companies. The CR costs a lot more; all the doctors in NY push it on you -they don't let new patients know that there is a regular little pill. I had been on regular Coreg 1st. So far my drug plan is covering a good part of it. If it gets out of control, I may have to back to regular.
I tried to walk in the middle of the day today & the Coreg got to me -just went 2 blocks. Just now I went out again & walked 5 blocks with no problems.
Anyone out there who is on Coreg feeling cold all the time? I am in Florida & I am still cold. My old cardio said it was from the Coreg.

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"Beta blockers block the action of endogenous catecholamines (epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline) in particular), on β-adrenergic receptors, part of the sympathetic nervous system which mediates the "fight or flight" response."

Badda bing!! : ) That's why beta blockers are prescribed for people w panic attacks and stage fright.

I've been on Coreg and a few other beta blockers for 13 years, but switched to generic Carvidolol (90 pills for $10 at Walmart and many other pharmacies now) when I had no health insurance for a year and a half. To my surprise, I discovered Carvidolol was much more compatible with my daily energy peaks and lows...it gave me the valuable gift of choosing what times of day were best to take the meds.

It helps enormously with keeping palps and tachs from going on so long things get out of control...which I gladly exchange for the added heaviness from the fatigue side effect. hummmm.....dead or deeply exhausted 24/7? I've made my peace with 'deeply exhausted 24/7' long ago.

take care,
Jaynie

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Patricia Sami

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080127115647AALY8MV

wikipedia for the second quote

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Jaynie, SAID: It helps enormously with keeping palps and tachs from going on so long things get out of control...which I gladly exchange for the added heaviness from the fatigue side effect. hummmm.....dead or deeply exhausted 24/7? I've made my peace with 'deeply exhausted 24/7' long ago.
She also said badda bing, I will add badda bang BOOM just for some levity.

So far I feel the heavy exhaustion upon exertion, I can sit or lie in peace but walking at times can be a struggle & stairs holy moly.. I was hoping that would improve after some time.

Oddly enough I have a bit of edginess which does not correlate with the fight or flight thing, I have to wonder if this is real or in my head.. MAYBE I need MORE medication.. this could be around the time when the inderal (BB) has left my body after 2 1/2 yrs & my body may be asking for more BB like the doc indicated instead of less..

what to do.... call or go thru it till monday... hate those questions...

ladies thanks for keeping this thread alive it is so helpful.. to many posters..

denise

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Patricia, My brother wants me off because one of the side effects mentioned is vasospam. I have vasospastic angina. The documented spasm is of the LAD. He wonders if it is hurting not helping.
Ed(My cardiologist) put me on it because I was exhausted. I could not get off the couch it was so bad and also my EF had dropped. Plus as I read from the others it is when I started having increased CHF symptoms, swelling and SOB. The chest pain did not change at that time and I have felt more energy. I discussed this with Ed and I have stayed on although my brother keeps pushing to get me off.
Now as my symptoms worsen I don't believe it is because of the CoReg.I think it is just the nature of the beast. The more spasms I have the more CHF symptoms I have. Makes sense to me. We'll see.
One of my brothers partners is interested in my case and wants to review it. It won't hurt anything but I'll see whet he says.I'm not doing anything if Ed does not agree. He believed me when no one else would.

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gosh intercase you sure have a lot of heavy decisions and thinking to do..

there are so many duplicate reactions from drugs & our dx that it makes it nearly imp to make sound judgements..

i wish you the best..

nurse to nurse
friend to friend

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DenisePA:

Thank you so much for responding to my query. I learn so much for people who have patience and are willing to share.

PatriciaSami

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Hi, Interestingcase:

Wow! I learn so much from reading these posts. Thank you so much for sharing. I wish you wellness.
PatriciaSami

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jaynie, said: So I'm back on Coreg 12.5mg, twice a day. I don't feel any neediness...in fact, there are days I don't take the morning dose at all.

My question is are you saying you skip the coreg completely? I just reread this thread and found this statement. Am I correct when I hear you say you skip a dose here & there?

denise

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I have an ICD for a healthy heart with a bad electrical
systems(to complex for eblation), I do not smoke,drink,
keep my sugar to only natural sugars,sodium to under 1500 per day and watch all fats. I also walk at least 30 min. per day. I am on amiodarone as it is the only drug
that keeps my debibrillator from firing(worked great so far) and my ejection fraction went from 30 to 60. Thats when my electrophysiologist thought it would be a brilliant idea to put me on a ace (lisinopril) which wass not good for me and they put me on an arb (cozaar)
which messed me up even worse so they took me off
everything but the amiodarone and I felt great. Now they
put me on Coreg and I hate the stuff(although I can now walk an hour or more and run up stairs) the Coreg started at 6.25 2xday but I begged to be titrated down to
3.125 morning and 6.25 before bed. I still feel rotten in the morning and keep losing weight (I'm a size 6 petite)
due to morning nausea and dizziness. I also developed cataracts just three months after taking the Coreg.
I normally have very low blood pressure but each time
they take me off an ACE or ARB, BP goes sky high as a
rebound effect. I hate to go off Coreg for this reason alone. Any ideas out there would be appreciated.
Shamal

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