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Canine CHF

kk_stl
0 Recommendations

Hi Ladies!
My dear 13 year old mini schnauzer, Duchess, went into acute heart failure last week. She developed a heart murmur last year so we were keeping a watchful eye to make sure she didn't develop rapid breathing, more than 30 breaths per minute.

The vet thinks her valve developed a tear for the fluid build up to occur so quickly in her lungs. Luckily, it did not go beyond the lungs like in her chest cavity.

She was just running around like a wild woman the day before. I thought she just had an upset tummy when I noticed she didn't eat her food. I had the fans on high in the kitchen so I didn't notice her breathing was labored until the next day.

It seemed like forever for the Lasix shot and medicine to work after we went to the vet. It was the hardest few hours I ever spent. There was not much I could do to comfort her.

My poodle who I had to put down 13 years ago also died of CHF complications. He just slowed down gradually and then had a stroke which left his hind legs paralyzed. I cared for him for 2-3 months after that incident. Back then I did not see the harness wheel chair carts like I do now! I had just used a cloth moving belt around his torso so he could walk outside and do his business. I bet he would have lived longer if I had thought of something like that. He got so depressed at the end.

It was bedsores that did him in. I didn't know what they were at first. He never showed any signs of pain. He just eventually refused to eat from my hand. It was my fist time putting a dog down and I could not shake the depression for a few years. I tried so hard to remember the good times but all that my mind could recall was his final days when he was so sick.

The vet told me Duchess has anywhere from 6 months to 2+years. Her murmur is very loud. It was mid grade last year. Eventually the fluid will build up again and they will have to keep increasing the medicine. Eventually it won't work. They can drain fluid with a needle but I don't know how long that lasts.

Does anyone know if portable oxygen tanks are available for animals? She has a harness and all we would need is a velcro fastener with one of those small portable packs. Of course, I don't know if she would tolerate the nose prongs.

13 years ago, my poodle only took one medicine for his CHF. He never developed fluid in his lungs. Duchess takes 3 pills now. Lasix, Vetmedin and an ace inhibitor called Benezapril. The vet explained to me that they found out the combination of drugs with the diuretic yields the best results. She is not taking the ace inhibitor for high blood pressure!

The Vetmedin is a new miracle drug for CHF and is only approved by the FDA for canines right now. It is quite expensive but is supposed to improve both the quality and longevity of the dog's life.

There has been no funding to compare how Vetmedin works with a diuretic vs. an ace inhibitor. So, I guess they decided to throw both at her.

I have to admit I was quite perturbed when she developed diarrhea 3 days later and the vet claimed it was not a side effect of the drugs. What little information there is on the web said it was! I guess her system got used to the drugs and after a week she no longer has the diarrhea. Her appetite isn't what it used to be and apparently that happens with these drugs.

I fed her rice and boiled ground turkey for the past week...something bland. When I tried to change her back to her Purina Fit N Trim, I had to hand feed it to her. It reminded me the first week I brought her home. I had to do the same.

Another vet suggested she eat a prescription diet where the salt is better controlled. I'm already paying $50 a month for the drugs if I order online. The vet's office markup was horrible! I'm hoping they will let me order online and provide me a prescription.

This time around I knew some intelligent questions to ask the vet. Apparently, dogs don't have to worry about high cholesterol like humans! Could you imagine if I had to add Lipitor to the med list?!

I don't have insurance for Duchess. I thought about it when I first got her but never followed through. She has been very healthy till up to now. They had warned me this breed easily develops pancreatitus so I've been closely monitoring her weight.

She has healthy teeth. I never had to have them professionally cleaned. We did that for my poodle and he lived to be 17 years old. He lived with his murmur for 4 years. They say bad teeth can lead to heart disease.

I goto a different vet to get her shots and asked him how he would treat her condition. He was talking about an xray and ultrasound in the future. I hate to sound so cold and callous but if they can't do anything for her like surgery, why go through this expense?! It's not as if I will go back to the same breeder (another story).

I had to ask the other vet if we could see if the lasix didn't help the congestion before he took an xray. He explained that was the purpose of the xray to see if the fluid was beyond her lungs and then they would drain with a needle.

So, I try to be thankful what time I have left with her. I was fearful they were going to tell me to put her down that day! I don't know how I made it to the vet with all the thoughts racing through my mind!

The tears came a few days later with what the vet told me about her prognosis. Somehow I thought I would have longer like I did with my poodle. After a day in bed, I decided it wasn't doing any of us any good.

I will see how she tolerates exercise. She jumps and runs around like she has since a puppy. And I thought I was going to get a lap dog! lol I've learned to love her for her playfulness and I decided to get a cat a few years ago to fulfill the lap pet need.

I know I won't be ready when it's her time but I will try to enjoy what time we have left. I'll be giving up my membership at the gym so I can affort her meds but I really wasn't using it that much anyway!

On a good note, dogs don't suffer heart attacks like we do! I'll have to watch for other similar symptoms though...fainting, labored breathing, irregular heart beat.

Please send some prayers our way. They are with us for such a short amount of time to begin with!

Thanks,
KK

Explore topics in this discussion:

Exercise High cholesterol Cancer Heart failure Surgery Lipitor Bypass surgery Lasix Stent Stress Heart disease Uterine cancer Stroke Viagra Pain Heart attack Ear infections Depression Diarrhea

20 replies

martzj

Oh KK.....my heart really goes out to you now. Who loves us like our beloved pets do? I had to carry my 18 year old cat to be put to sleep less than 3 weeks after coming home from massive heart attack and a week in intensive care, much damage. Didn't know if I could survive losing my 'baby'. I carried him and held him until the end. My other 'baby' cat is now 17 and on his last legs. I will carry him until the end also. They let us know when it is time don't they.

Love and blessings to you and sweet Duchess,
Jaynie

kk_stl

Jaynie
Thanks for your kind words. I can't imagine doing that just after your massive heart attack! I've been under such extreme stress this year with my mom and my expenses! My chest felt so heavy or was it just tightening? If I was gonna have the big one, the time sure seemed ripe.

I had no idea of what/how a pet was put down. I deeply regret not holding my first dog, Nickey, till the end. I asked the vet what happened after the injection e.g., if they struggled, etc. I choose to say goodbye just before the injection. I was consumed with guilt and had nightmares from not being with him till the very end. I was by myself and I honestly didn't know if I could drive home afterwards.

I will do things differently now with Duchess.

Dogs and some cats are the only living souls I know who can show unconditional love. As a Christian we are supposed to strive to show unconditional love to others but it always has its limitations if you think about it. I guess that is why I will continue to go through this process time and again...

I never thought about having their ashes put with me when I'm buried but I read an earlier post from someone grieving from putting her pet down about a month ago. I got alot of grief from my family for having the ashes returned to me. My dad speculates that there aren't ashes in the closed wooden box or if there are it isn't my pets!

I found out one of my cousins had her beloved cat taxidermed (stuffed) and she keeps it in a drawer in her house. I guess she didn't want to loose the thought of hugging it though I never confronted her about it. Her mom told me about it. I know some people bury their pet in their back yard but digging a ditch is not easy work! And, what if you later move away?! I heard there are pet cemeteries with caskets and the whole works but I don't even visit graves of people I knew! I guess each person has to do what seems best for them.

I don't want to be jumping ahead of myself but I'm thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea for me to make some kind of advance arrangements with my vet so I'm not caught making decisions during extreme grief like last time.

KK

martzj

A week after I buried Soncho I had to go back to hospital for a 2nd stent and time in intensive care. Honestly have no idea how I survived that year. I do what feels right and caring for the passing of my pets. Don't particularly care what anyone else thinks. I had another pet at home that needed me to live and keep going.

It is good you are thinking of how to handle things when the time comes. You know more what you want now and that will be comforting for you.

hugs KK,
Jaynie

gracie62

Oh, KK, my heart goes out to you and Duchess. I had triple bypass surgery 12/30/07, followed by a heart attack on 1/17/2008. Gracie Mae, my beloved mini schanuzer, was the first to greet me when I came home. She had just turned 8 at the time. Hurricane Ike blew in in September of last year. Gracie had seemed to be in good health. But, the storm revealed what she had hidden from us - she went from begging for treats one day to slipping into a coma overnight when we were living off a generator. The stress of the storm must have hastened it. I held her while she was put down and mourn her loss to this day.

I have just now started recovering. We added 2 new Boston Terrier pups to our household in the last month. I must be insane! They are the twin terrors, but keep life interesting.

Handle this as you see fit and don't worry what anyone thinks about anything. This is about you and Duchess. You are both in my thoughts and prayers.
Dianna

kk_stl

Dianna,
I am glad you have opened your heart and life to your two new pups! I felt the same way when I adopted Duchess. I thought to myself, what was I thinking adopting a puppy when I was used to a very calm, trained and obedient older poodle!

Duchess never stopped being a lively puppy. She had been returned to a pet store at six months. I had first responded to several newspaper ads for pedigree dogs in the weeks before I got her. The conditions were deplorable at these homes and so I stumbled past the mall store by complete accident. They were charging only $200 for her which was highly ununusual. I wasn't aware of the puppy mill scene till years later. I lucked out I didn't get a sickly dog. I've found alot of shelters online which is where I adopted my cat a few years ago.

Duchess didn't turn out to be the lap dog I was longing for but she did fetch and retrieve balls, which I Iove to do with her. She is so hyper that the only time she can sleep next to me and be still is during a thunderstorm but she trembles. When she got sick, I thought it might comfort her to sleep with me. Fat chance. She just isn't a bed snuggler but I love her for her other qualities.

Interesting though how when I was at my lowest coming home from the hospital after my mom's surgery and going through financial issues at the same time, she and my cat would share the bed with me! They knew something was wrong and I was glad for the company even if they were covered in fur.

I get worried now when thunderstorms come through and she gets wound up. I might have to ask the vet if there is something I can give her.

She got into a big bag of jelly beans last year and would not stop barking for over 2 hours straight! The vet laughed and told me just to let the sugar wear off.

I'd still like to be a mom someday but for now my furry kids will do!

KK

Ecksunbeam

Dear KK,

I hope you have your little dog around for some time to come.

I just wanted to mention an idea to you: I have a cat buried in a very large outdoor planter that I have carried around with me for the past 10 years or more. Snowflake is sprouting irises and, for the past three years, a silver maple tree (seed) found it's way into her plot. It's now about 3' high, got quite leafy this year, and is actually changing fall colors.

Anyway, you can plant or decorate with anything you want in it, place it in different areas, and it's moveable if you move to another home.

May the Blessings Be!

Sherrie

kk_stl

Sherrie,
What a wonderful idea! I have some huge tree size planters already that I've been using for vegetables and herbs to keep the rabbits away! I've been wanting to add a few more with decorative plants.

I have to admit I never was a fan of cremation and with her being such a small dog it is probably feasible to consider other options. I'd have to bring somebody with me though because I could never bear putting or carrying them in a bag, etc.

Gosh, this is such a dreary thought process but I suppose I could find a nice box.

I hate to ask such a graphic question but is there a smell associated with a decaying corpse under 20 pounds?

I had a whiskey barrel planter that the previous owner left behind. It was in a spot that nothing ever grew in it. I think I would have fainted if I found bones in it when it eventually rotted away and I moved it! The news around the neighborhood is that the owner didn't take care of her pets very well.

KK

Ecksunbeam

Dear KK,

I can't remember any odor (the planter was outside) and I don't remember what I wrapped her in. Even in a large planter you can bury her pretty deep and include her favorite toys, blanket, place a marker for her on it, etc. I think the worst of the decomposition occurs pretty quickly and I "strongly" suspect it depends on the time of the year. But Snowflake lives on by offering her nutrients to those flowers. She was a pure bred flame point Himalayian--long white fur and blue eyes. I find it very cool that a silver Maple--of all things--found it's way to that pot. Perfect!

But for right now, let's just take real good care of Duchess, as I am sure you will.

Have a Beautiful Day!

Sherrie

kk_stl

Sherrie,
It sounds like a beautiful cat! One of my neighbors had one that loved to sunbathe on their driveway! It's personality was incredible! My cat is a seal point Siamese mix. I thought short hair would be easier for my first cat! I think they shed even more. I couldn't figure out how to insert a pic in this text so I temporarily will add it to my profile. The man in the picture is my boyfriend of 10+ years! He's got the commitment bug. Any ideas on how to hook him?! I've tried everything under the sun.
KK

Ecksunbeam

Hey KK, there's a nurse somewhere on this site who has been married something like six or seven times. I think you should chase her down.

I've never been married so I'm afraid I have absolutely no suggestions for you. I am a complete failure (and coward) when it comes to snagging men. In fact, my daughter's boyfriend also seems to suffer from it. So, if you come up with any brilliant schemes, please let me be the first to know.

Maybe we can put our coniving minds together and come up with a magic potion of some sort: How about a chocolate infusion laced with Truth serum, tacquilla, and Viagra :--)

Sherrie

kk_stl

Hmm...he's allergic to chocolate and doesn't like to drink so I'll have to go another route. lol

He's a workaholic that survives with sugar and Mountain Dew so the delivery could be easily disguised and fast acting!

Funny you mention that! He has to get an edoscopy every few years and I think I'm gonna try to get some of his twilight anesthesia bottled for me next time he goes in. His personality was so different...open, joking, etc.! I decided to be bold and slip in about setting a date after his last procedure. Even under the influence he still paused and got silent for a short while. Next time I'm going to bring a minister with me in the recovery room! lol Many of his past gf's went through the same issues. I don't know what he is waiting for at 45 years old!

KK

ckgoduto

I was sad to hear your story because I lost my best friend earlier this year. It wasn't heart disease with her, but cancer. Happily I got a new pup a Schnoodle (Miniature Schnauzer/Poodle) and she looks very similar to your dog. They are the same color almost a silver gray. It is rough to go through caring for an animal like this to the end. It's so sad when you see them getting worse day by day.

I also have a cat with a heart murmur.

I'll be thinking about Duchess and saying a little prayer too.

kk_stl

I'm sorry to hear about your pet. I met a lady at my last vet appt that was telling me how her lab was a cancer survivor. They saw some skin growth along their dog's chest and decided to pay the $40 to get it biopsied. It was good they did that! They were able to remove it with surgery before it spread. My sister lost 2 large dogs to cancer. The last one went very quickly with a brain hemmorage. It's not easy to handle large 70-90+ lb dogs when they are sick.

My best friend got treated for Stage IV uterine cancer last year so she is a walking miracle. This past year really sucked with stressors for me.

I think I read your other post and it dawned on me how my Duchess is so stubborn at times! She prefers men over women. She goes nuts over my dad or any other male friend of mine so it's just not the alpha pecking order going on. It used to bother me that she never greeted me coming home like she does when a man comes over.

My male poodle preferred women. I don't know if it was a gender thing or what. They both were/are great watch dogs.

If your dog takes after the schnauzer side she loves when you have company and will want to be the center of attention. I used to have a group of friends over my house for faith sharing. I had her on my lap and as each person talked, she would follow every word and even occasionally join in with a bark to agree.

She hated to have to share time with my cat, Prince, but now they are buddies and love chasing each other. Prince let me know he wasn't happy with the extra attention to Duchess last week and so he pissed on one of my couches. That has been the worst thing about getting used to having a cat. If they stick to their litter box they are cleaner that dogs but mine has behavior issues. lol

I've tried everything but a behavior drug for him and even the vet said that always won't help. If my boyfriend and I ever merge households he will need the drugs as Matt has 2 cats and he's used to being the prince.

I guess you can tell who rules the roost in my household with my pet's names. lol

I think my next dog will be small again (against my boyfriend's preferences) but they live much longer than the larger breeds! Non shedding is also so nice though will all the cats I'm not sure that will be as important! I got my folks a toy poodle that I will probably inherit if their health takes a turn. He's nothing like my first one though. He came from an abusive situation and has bitten me a few times. He makes Duchess's stubborness look like nothing!

Other than CHF my poodle, Nickey, had chronic ear infections. That is typical for those breeds with long floppy ears. I don't miss that part at all.

KK

AuntieMom

kk,

My beloved cockatiel bird went to the Rainbow Bridge about a year and a half ago to wait for me. I found out there are pet creamatoriums. Lily was creamated by her self and I received her ashes back in a gorgeous hand carved cherry wood little box. It reminds me of a small jewelery/trinket box but I don't want to say that Lily is in a trinket box. I was absolutely astounded at the care and presentation that went into the whole event. I placed Lily in the basket they had for her, placed her toys with her - you are probably asking what toys does a cockatiel have - a couple q-tips because she loved banging them up and down and a few silk flowers (she had deflowered one of my hanging silk plants) and a few tags from a local thrift store (she loved chewing and destroying them). After Lily was all settled in her basket the gentleman at the creamatorium held a small service. It was extremely hard to do but it was also awesome - after the fact I was very glad that we had done it. At the end of the service Steve said "Let us pray". I had taken my two other cockatiels with me. Mickey was on my left shoulder and Katye was on my right shoulder. Anyways, when Steve said let us pray I bowed my head, Katye bowed her head and Mickey turned her back to the basket. At the end of the prayer when Steve said "Amen", I also said amen, Katye gave a short chirp and Mickey turned back around. It took all of Steve's control not to laugh at that point. It was the first time that he had had any interaction with birds as pets.

I could have stayed while Lily was creamated but I chose not to, I thought it would be too much for me to bear. Steve did give us a tour of the facility - showed us where the creamating took place, etc.

Before I had taken Lily there a girlfriend had had to have her cocker put down. The vet took Lady with her and Lady was creamated. Since my girl friend had moved from Mass. to Maryland in between Lady's passing and remains being returned. Lady was mailed to my girlfriend in MD from the place that I went.

You might want to check with your vet as to whether they can send your baby there or not come time.

It's called White Rose Pet Cemetary in Brattleboro, VT. They do have a website that you can check out.

AuntieMom

kk_stl

AuntieMom
What a charming story about your pet's funeral service! I didn't realize cokatiels could be trained to perch on your shoulder like that! Very cool!

Thanks for sharing the piece about the special crematory. I'm pretty sure the place they sent Nickey was out of town. They showed me a catalog of boxes I could have his ashes mailed back to me but they didn't offer any kind of ceremony like you mentioned. It just seemed cold to have his body transported in a body bag but that was the only option they offered.

His box is 5x7 and there is a place to insert a photo in the front. It is also made of cherry wood.

I really don't look forward to investigating my options but life isn't supposed to be easy and I'd like to be a little more prepared this time around. I just remember it seemed like they charged an awful lot of money for everything.

KK

AuntieMom

KK and anyone else interested,

Check out this web site: http://www.whiterosepet.com/directions.php

They may know of a place out your way that provides the same services they do.

Just check some of my previous postings for other bird stories - they are highly amusing.

AuntieMom

ckgoduto

Just wondering about the $40.00 vet biopsy bill. Where is this vet? My vet wanted to charge me $1,500-$2,000.00 on top of every other test and Xray my late beloved dog had. They padded the bill to almost $1,800.00 for all the tests and visits. Vets are NOT cheap, they are more expensive than my doctors. I didn't have medical insurance on this dog, but now I have my other two dogs insured for the basic policy.

Yes, my pup is definitely "more Schnauzer" than poodle, but she does have a problem with the ears like a poodle. How much does your dog weigh. I am concerned about my pup because she is very thin and you can feel her rib bones. Mine weighs approximately a little over 11 pounds.

They say the bigger the dog the shorter life span. I have a whopper size dog at almost 100lbs. and he 6 yrs old and already out of breath and limping from his extra weight.

kk_stl

Duchess is up to 15 pounds now. She was around 13. They say she has lost alot of muscle weight. That is why I can feel her bones all along her back.

The vet preached to me about maintaining her weight properly so I had her on Purina Fit N Trim. Schnauzers are very avid eaters and they are prone to pancreatitus.

I think it's okay to feel their ribs. There should be a curve or tuck at the rear legs. If you stand up and look down at them you should see an hour glass curve. If not, then they are too thin.

I later heard from a fellow schnauzer owner that alot of the breeders are no longer cropping their ears. It's painful but also probably cheaper not to do it! They had cropped them in the past because they were rat chasers and the drooping ears would have made them vulnerable to those vermits.

I was surprised at the cheap biopsy cost also! I'm lucky if they only charge me that for blood work. I'm wondering if this customer had special connections with the owner because they were trimming her lab's nails for free! I had never heard of that and would definitely have let them work on Duchess! She hates to get her nails trimmed. I groom her myself and she was getting so worked up that I now wonder if that brought on her CHF a day later. She always is very excitable like that. Some mellow out with age but not her.

I live in the St. Louis area. I am taking her to 2 vets. One advertises vacinnations and rables at an extremely low rate (i.e., to get you in the door). They more than make up for it by wanting to order alot of tests, etc. They also pushed teeth cleaning at an exorbitant rate! But they are open around the clock so if I have an emergency she is already established.

I like the other vet much better...more personable, etc. I took her to them when she went into CHF. Their meds and food are marked up but they respected my wishes about withholding extra testing, etc.

If I decide on a non cremation burial for her when that time comes I might just goto the local humane society to get the shot. It was very expensive at the vet's office. I'd never question spending money to put them out of their misery but give me a break! I felt like they robbed me at a time I was so vulnerable. I was out several hundred dollars from that final visit and in between jobs.

KK

ckgoduto

Don't you want to have her ashes or spread them out over where she loved to play?

I have my dogs ashes and photo on top of my entertainment center and when the time comes she will be buried with me.

I thought the cost of cremation wasn't bad especially if you so desired your own dogs ashes. Yes I know it could be some other dogs ashes, but I will believe it is her in the urn. I think the entire deal was less than $300.00.

Hope you will have many more years with Duchess. I will enjoy my little Schnoodle to the fullest. She does not have a good appetite - she turns her nose on all dry foods and even some moist or wet ones.

kk_stl

I'm just not sure I'm a fan of creamation. I guess I associate the fire as harsh though others would quip that letting the body get eaten by maggots and worms is not great either but it seems more natural. It's something I will have to explore.

Duchess is very much an indoor dog so I don't think spreading ashes inside would work for me! lol

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