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AED at home: Needed? Too Expensive?

hugues
0 Recommendations

Dear Community,

I lost one of my relative to SCA. The emergency service did arrive too late for the defibrillation to be efficient. Since then I have been wondering why people do not have AED at home (they are available over the counter since 2004). I believe that awarness is part of the explanation as well as the high price (+/- 1200$ for a new AED).

I studied and opened an AED, it is extremly basic and consists of 4 components: A plastic casing, a simple electronic circuit, a standard battery and a pair of electrodes. I am quite sure that if made in large volume it could be produced for a very low price and made widely available.

I am thinking of starting a company to pursue that goal. I would appreciate your comments to better understand why people do not go and buy AEDs. What prevents you from getting an AED. What do you think should be a reasonable price.

Thanks for your comments

Hugues

Explore topics in this discussion:

Cancer Sudden cardiac arrest Pancreatic cancer

13 replies

erfisch

The neighborhood AED idea is a good one and your point is a valid one.

We have a system called AED Link, which can auto-notify AED owners in the vicinity of an SCA event, through the 9-1-1 system. A call to 9-1-1 that is coded by the call taker as an SCA event automatically:
1) provides AED location information to the call taker so a second person can be sent to get the AED while the first continues CPR, and
2) without the call taker doing anything else, auto-notifies registered volunteer citizen responders in the vicinity to get their AED and go to the side of the victim.

We welcome inquiries on how this system can be provided for your community.

Elliot Fisch, CEO/Co-Founder
Atrus, Inc.
www.aedlink.com
888-202-4009
erfisch@atrusinc.com

erfisch

Sandy –

I respect and admire your devotion to help others prevent the loss you experienced.

I must, however, point out the inaccuracy of the statement that the Philips AED “is the only AED with voice activated complete CPR”.

In the spirit of full disclosure I’ve been a part of an AED distribution company that is also a Philips sub-distributor. Currently, I am also Zoll’s manufacturer’s representative for the State of Florida.

The Zoll AED Plus is the only AED that actually sees the rescuer doing the CPR and can voice coach the rescuer to not only start their compressions but do them correctly. The unit is also the only one that can tell if the compressions are being done and how well they are being done. If the compressions aren’t deep enough (and you know this is the #1 problem) then the machine will coach the rescuer to “push harder”. Once good compressions begin the machine will support that by telling the rescuer that they are doing “good compressions”. The machine also has a window that shows the rescuer the depth of compressions to visually guide them in the process.

In a more succinct way to put it, the Zoll AED Plus is the only AED that has an interaction between the activity of the rescuer and the AED during the CPR process.

As you know, but customers in the market might not, the Philips unit does not support the full chain of survival until AFTER the first shock (or no-shock – which is about half the time) is advised. When you say it is voice activated “complete CPR”, it only happens by saying “if CPR is needed, push the blue button”, which at that point is a bit “late to the party”. Once that button is pushed it advises the rescuer to “make sure 9-1-1 has been called” – also a bit late.

At that point the machine does a good job of telling the rescuer where to put their hands (but it doesn’t SHOW them where, as the Zoll AED Plus does) and telling them to push down 1 ½ to 2”. Once again, it tells them but doesn’t SHOW them or coach them once they have begun. At that time the metronome kicks in. Unfortunately, if compressions don’t start right away, the metronome keeps going because the Philips AED does not a way to interact with the rescuer. The Zoll AED Plus will prompt the rescuer to start CPR until the do start and it will know it because the pads give the feedback to the AED – providing interaction between the AED and the rescuer.

If you are out in the marketplace you know these things; it’s just inaccurate to say “the Philips AED is the only AED with voice activated complete CPR”.

That is a disservice to the buying public.

Paul_Pakusch

There are several points in this thread that I would like to respond to:

1) Mary (also on this forum) was 43 went she went into sudden cardiac arrest. Under the category of "what are the odds---it will happen to someone else", I was in total shock that something catastraphic was happening to my young wife. I saw what happened to her, now I know anything can happen to anybody. This was only a few years after I lost my mother to pancreatic cancer. Bad things DO happen to family members, and no one is immune.

2) For a neighborhood to have a shared AED, it sounds good and might help in some cases. But I have to put my own experience forth to see how realistic that would be: I was alone with her. If our apartment complex had had an AED when Mary went into SCA, it would have taken me 5 minutes to run to the office and get it and 5 minutes to return. She would have been down for 10 minutes with no one around. As it was, the 911 operator was talking me through CPR while the fire dept was en route. They arrived after about 7 or 8 minutes. People keep telling me that my efforts at CPR are what saved Mary. Had I gone to get an AED, CPR never would have happened. The bottom line is, an AED is great if someone is available to get it while one person administers CPR.

3) I love the concept of an AED in every home, since it's been pointed out that most SCA's happen in the home. But getting people to buy one is a challenge. I was extremely lucky; I had a very good 911 operator tell me what to do with CPR and Mary ultimately made a complete recovery. But I have become very outspoken about getting people to learn bystander CPR. After 2.5 years, I have yet to convince a single relative or friend to learn CPR, which is something with a minimal cost or even free. I can't even begin to think of trying to get them to come up with money for AED's in their homes.

Jdaddy

SCA can happen to anyone at anytime. Approximately 80% of these events occur in the home. Heart attacks (MI - myocardial Infarction) are the number one cause of SCA. MI is a problem with the heart muscle itself (plumbing problem) while SCA is an electrical problem. Don't confuse the two.

Unfortunately, EMS usually can't get to the victim in time. The window to save a victim is less than 5 minutes typically. EMS response times are on average 6-15 minutes from the 911 call.

For every minute lost the victim's chances of survival to hospital discharge decrease by 10%. Thus bystander CPR (compressions only at a rate of 100 per minute) and using an AED within 5 minutes are critical to give the victim a reasonable chance.

There are refurbished AEDs on the market now which can bring the price for an in home unit under $1000. Google "AEDs" and you'll find a number of sites that offer new and refurbished AEDs. Like any electrical product, verify the reputation of the distributor and research the manufacturer before purchasing an AED.

Jeffsdad

NWWriter

Hi Cassandra,

I'm so glad your brother survived the SCA despite the lack of an onsite AED. Yay! You must have had a good response time from EMS (let's send out a shout for all those EMS teams!) and I'm glad he's continuing to recover.

I'm just a commoner on this site and I'm sure someone else will give you the info on resources available through SCAA, but in the meantime I just want to send you a "Go Girl!" as you begin a chapter in your life you didn't see coming.
Mary Lyons
SCA 7/16/87 at age 35 while playing softball near a Seattle Fire Station.

2ndchance

Hi Sandy,

SCA hit home for me on Feb. 16, 2008, when my 36 year old brother went into cardiac arrest while playing basketball at recreation center. CPR was given; however, I'm not sure how soon because I have heard several different stories. When EMS arrived my brother was still unresponsive, but was finally revived. He was in a coma for about 8 days, and today is still hospitalized and progressing (Thank God).

In my opinion AED's should be easily accessible, and the cost should not be an issue. When saving a life is at stake certain facilities should have the proper training and equipment. I strongly believe people are unaware of SCA and it needs to be talked about more. I will do whatever it takes to create awareness about this, because it hit too close to home for me to remain silent.

Please let me know where to get brochures, wrist bands, or whatever to spread the word. I am working on getting an AED at the recreation center where my brother was playing basketball, and then I will push for this to be a requirement at all recreation/workout facilities in Texas.

Cassandra

EugeneJohnson

I'm sure Rodney Koser wouldn't mind if you contacted him about his AED obtained through MEDICARE his email is: rojoko@runestone.net . He lives in Herman, MN.

pdminc

I think this is only related to the external AEDs which you wear that will work automaticly. This is normally to be used instead of or while waiting for an ICD. These will rent for around $600 per month. I would sure like to know if a reqular AED was paid for by Medicare either by rental or purchase. Relative to risk of a relative, everyone over 65 is at risk with around 1 in 400 chance of having an SRC this year. It goes to nearly 1 in 30 for those over 85. I know of one nursing home with 160 beds using trhe defibrillator about once a month excluding DNR residents.

PDM

Mark

Besides the cost, there's the problem of having someone immediately available to operate the AED when it's needed. The person at risk for the SCA would have to take it with him everywhere he went, and have someone constantly at his side to use it.

EugeneJohnson

I will speak mainly to the over 65 person who has had an SCA experience.
Here in Minnesota I believe one of our members Rodney Koser of Herman, MN was able to obtain an AED through MEDICARE at little or no cost to him.The only criteria required by MEDICARE was that the over 65 person (maybe it's lower...a senior 55?) who has experienced a SCA verified by their Cardiologist can get an AED...either rented monthly and paid for by Medicare ,or eventually purchased by them.
I am in the process of obtaining the paperwork to do the same thing as Rodney, as I also fit the criteria. I'll let the organization know if this in fact transpires.
I also think close relatives like brothers and sisters of the SCA victim would also qualify when reaching a senior status for "peace of mind" for their family members to have an AED closeby.
I'll do some research into this and let SCAA know my findings.
Gene Johnson-New Brighton, MN SCA 9-11-02

pdminc

You bring up many questions that I have been asking for some time. I do remember one professor in college who gave me this advice: “Whenever you look at a new product or service, begin with your customer because that is where you will need to end. Unfortunately many companies begin with a concept that becomes a catastrophe.”

I do not believe people are not buying AEDs in large quantities because of either a prescription need or price. Prescription requirements are either not required in the case of the Phillips at home unit or are they a barrier for any other defibrillator as prescriptions are included or easily available. I do not believe the cost is the reason for lack of usage. Take your estimated cost of $1200 and add $300 for pads and batteries over the next 10 years and you have an average cost of $150/year or about a can of Diet Coke a day on sale. Compare that to the cost of insurance on a home over the next 10 years. The average person is already spending 5 times the cost of an AED to insure a home. The average cost of a home fire is $13,800 and the average cost of SCA is death. I have yet to meet the person who would trade his life for their home. Well, with four people in a home, the chance of SCA occurring in a home is about the same as a home fire at about 400,000 occurrences of each possibility.

I know several people with extraordinary wealth who will not buy an AED. My conclusion is that people just believe that bad things just happen to someone else. They probably would not buy home insurance if the bank did not make this a requirement for a loan. Maybe getting life insurance companies to require an AED as part of a life insurance policy is the only why we will see wide spread usage.

It is also not lack of knowledge. I did a market survey by having a booth at a motor home rally to inform the people and get feedback. Most were aware of AEDs and a few had implanted ICDs while none had an AED. This was an older group (Average age 70) and remote locations (most lived in their motor home with another person) and I offered a low cost option ($49 rental month to month) in addition to direct purchase there was no interest in obtaining an AED.

When someone does buy an AED for home, it is usually because of a perceived need by someone other that the buyer such as a spouse who has had heart problems, or an older parent living at the home.

Looking at the business side your description of the AED sounds about like the Apple 2C without the battery and electrodes which was introduced in 1983. The unit sold for about $1000 at that time ($3000 in today’s dollars) and they did 100,000 units in the first day of sales or about last years total AED market. While volume production may reduce the cost at some point, the high cost of entry into the market due to FDA pre market certification, FDA quality audits that can shut down production for months like Medtronic; product recalls or fixes for every “bug” with certification that every unit has been updated assure that price drops will not occur soon. In fact, prices have been rising and I expect this trend to continue.

Peter.Metcalfe@startaheart.com

NWWriter

Hi Hugues and Sandy,

I'm a survivor of SCA and wouldn't have bought an AED prior to my SCA because I had no history of SCA, looked perfectly healthy at 35yo AND was the parent of two very young kids without the $1200 for a very questionable need....

"What are the odds?"

I've been studying emergency preparedness, though, and one of the suggestions in that literature is for neighborhoods to have a shared AED accessible at all times. I think that's a more feasible application than individual families/homes each owning one. A secure community "AED storage box" seems more attractive and appropriate than trying to get people to shell out $1200 each for a device they will PROBABLY never need.
Mary Lyons
SCA 7/16/87 (I just turned 20 again!)

SandyV48

Good Morning

I have written on this site before and I am a member. I lost my husband to SCA four and a half years ago...I since have started up a company called HEARTJUMPERS...I am a distributor of Philips which is the only AED with voice activated complete CPR...for the Ordinary Person in an Extraordinary time....I am an AHA CPR Instructor....I spend 3-4 nights a week talking to groups about the need for these life saving devices in their homes, churches, stores, doctors offices....the list is endless...I have a difficult time when someone replys to me about the cost of $1500...I tell them to ask my children if they would pay $1500 to have their father back...was he worth it?...Darn Right he was...so hopefully through my presentations it becomes possible for me to train the average person in what exactly is SCA....something I knew nothing about until it was too late...but Now I am an advocate...Thanks to the help of SCAA with brochures and wrist bands I am spreading the word...everyday....if my message can save one life what I am doing is worth it...

So Hugh feel free to give me a call I would love to chat with you....give you some pointers....I sure could use the help right now...I need people like you...

Anyone who has a business or home that needs a demo please call....or a club that needs a speaker with a story.

I look forward to hearing from any of you....Please Help the cause....always in need of someone to work for me and for God

Sandy
sandy@heartjumpers.com
www.heartjumpers.com
Distributor of Philips HeartStart OnSite AED
440-734-2661
440-623-5733

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