Not Para, but serious spinal injury and have questions please

• By mikey
• Posted May 16, 2009 at 4:03 am
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You said that your nerves are all twisted. I would have that looked at by an Interventional Radiologist. You want to mitigate the risk of loss of blood flow to the nerves. Loss of blood flow will cause paralysis.

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• By TraceD
• Posted May 16, 2009 at 11:31 am
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Not everyone on this site is in a chair. You could end uo in one if the damage you have progresses, the nerves can be further damaged by the disc herniations and the spinal stenosis. Seek out a great back surgeon don't settle on one opinion. Pain management may be an option in the long run. If you are overweight try to loose as much as possible both for the back now and to improve surgical chances. If you are getting alot of weakness in legs really consider surgery. Be your own advocate with your insurance company push for a good second opinion at a well respected hospital or teaching center. Do not settle for second opinion at same ortho group. Good luck, I am one who believes avoid staying in a chair if possible.

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• By Learning1
• Posted May 16, 2009 at 12:13 pm
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I'm not an expert about paralysis and degeneration of conditions, but as mickey mentioned, it the area isn't stabilized and is free moving, it clearly sounds like a recipe for further injury, and further injury means further degeneration. I've heard that, at least in some cases, fusion has been recommended to prevent further injury. But that is a call for the doctors to recommend regarding. Might be a good idea to check with a back specialist on this.

Either way, from everything I've seen, swelling in the spinal area is something you want to avoid since swelling with any spinal injury results in degeneration from everything I've seen. If possible, drugs are not the way to control swelling because of the side effects. One recent technology development area is energy medicine. Because of FDA "supervision", they are very limited in what they can claim, but they seem to help the body control swelling, and create an environment for healing, in many situations. I've seen and used a couple of the technologies to control other types of swelling, and they have helped substantially reduce regular back pain. The technologies are Low Level Laser, and Scenar (with its more recent user friendly and more regenerational version, cosmodic) technologies.

I've seen a lot on Low Level Lasers, and all (when used for appropriate timing, location, etc) help minimize swelling for any type of injury where they are used. They help improve micro-circulation to the area and help improve lymph drainage. While use in a therapy situation is good (and a lot of sports teams are now using them for their injuries), they seem to be more effective when they are used regularly. This is especially the case for the resonating scaler wave lasers, like the Q1000, where the laser waves penetrate properly to get to the injured areas, but do it in a manner where it happens gradually and doesn't quickly overload the cells. Apparently with earlier technology lasers you really need to watch the time, energy absorbed, etc, or you end up stalling any potential healing, and with some higher energy lasers, if used for too long, there is even a chance of causing injury.

Even studies using NASA created technology (Light Emitting Diodes) show that the light promotes healing (http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/multimedia/photos/2003/photos03-199.ht ml). The scaler wave resonating type lasers use diodes with the the same intensity and wave lenght as the NASA LEDs, but because they are a congruent light, they can be computer sync'd to create scaler waves (i.e. what makes tsunami waves go so far) which, even though low power, they have enough power to penetrate to the areas that need healing.

I've already written more than planned. I'll comment on Scenar / Cosmodic later. That is something that seems to hold out a lot of hope for even triggering the body to some regeneration. They have apparently had discs regrow in backs, and other amazing things, and that also has been shown to reduce swelling on back injuries etc.

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• By janders199
• Posted May 17, 2009 at 10:17 am
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You came to the right place for help. I'm no expert, but if I were you, I take the wheelchair option ASAP while you continue to research your situation. I'm a T-12 para and have pain 100% of the time 24/7 and there is nothing I can do about it unless I want to take so many pain meds that I sleep 18/day. Not a good alternative. I have too much left to accomplish while here on this planet. Like you, I have tried lots of "snake-oil" solutions for my pain, in addition to laser and accupuncture. Here are three sites that I am currently working with. Not sure they are going to give me any relief, but what the heck, nothing ventured, nothing gained. I will tell you, I sure wish I could walk . . . . no matter the pain level!

Three websites I have visited in an attempt to get my pain level tolerable:

www.bioharmony.emf411.com

View the second video.

www.mybiopro.com/bioharmony

www.quantumphysics.com

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• By truivia
• Posted May 17, 2009 at 3:44 pm
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Janders, Trac, Learning & Mike - I am confused. You each say you wish you could walk no matter the pain level. See THAT is my issue. I feel so guilty for thinking of the chair when people like you wish they had that as a OPTION!

I have been to all the specialist of many different groups and they all say the same "we can operate but no assurance it will help in any way, and you could be worse off".

SO I feel like now it is time to take matters into my own hands and make some life choices for myself.

Just sooooooo confused :(

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• By Bestgurl
• Posted May 17, 2009 at 11:22 pm
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Don't look at it as going to a chair. I broke my neck over twenty years ago. And I continue to make liers out of all of my past doctors. A wheelchair is not a crutch. It is a form of transportation. Just like your legs. The chair does not control you, you control the chair. If using the chair can give you more freedom, independence and would help put your pain under control then I say go for it. They make all types of coushins for wheelchairs. Try out the different ones until you find the one that works for you. Although you may not need to use a wheelchair on a daily basis I know the thought can be scary. Don't be scarred make the chair work for you. I wish you the best.

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• By Learning1
• Posted May 18, 2009 at 12:59 am
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Pain is a very personal thing, and causes and solutions vary between people. The thing to do is to find something that works for you.

Also, if you have some movement, be sure to take the steps needed to prevent further damage and further damage or deterioration. The implication from Truvia was that she may have a situation present that is further damage or deterioration waiting to happen. If that is the case, it is definitely worth looking into a way to stabilize that. With typical spinal cord injuries, after the initial injuries things should stabilize, not continue to get worse. And in the interim, if use of a chair helps prevent further injury, it sounds like it may be a good option.

Also, don't be afraid to look at alternatives outside the normal medical (alopathic) model. The problem with most of the non-standard treatment methods is that there are not a lot of places that offer the treatments, in part because of challenges from the medical community, so you need to track down the equipment or treatment yourself. Because they are outside the normal, they may not be something covered by insurance. And for some types of treatment, like some types of stem cell therapy, you have to look outside the country. And for things you can do yourself, it is hard to know what is the best equipment, and even how to use even good equipment.

Making it even more confusing, not all equipment of a general type is the same. Lasers are a prime example. I posted a link to a recent article on the LLT page where they were finally successful, in a complete paralysis test with rats (where the spinal cord was only partly severed), in getting complete recovery simply sewing the rats back up again, and using low level laser therapy on them. But it took getting the right frequency on the laser, and it had to be low level (not something that would overpower the cells), and it had to be used for a sufficient amount of time.

The right kind of laser, used for the right amounts of time, should help control pain, and as long as the cells are not overloaded with energy in the process, it should help create an environment for healing. The laser I've used that has helped friends with significant and constant back pain is a resonating laser which has penetration because it has scaler waves (the type of waves which, in the ocean, cause tsunamis)(a Q1000). It is computer controlled, uses several laser frequencies, and also creates patterns and frequencies by the pusing designed into the programs, and yet is a battery operated hand held device. It has pain modes, calming mode, a mode to boost seratonin and dopamine (to help fight off depression) and can be programmed to aid in nerve regeneration. This type of laser increases microcirculation to the area, and increases lymph drainage (which should help reduce swelling if present), and adds energy to the cells, making healing more likely.

Another type of device, which I've seen help a number of situations for helping kill pain, and for awakening the body to the need to heal itself, are Scenars and Cosmodics. The technology for these comes out of Russia, where much of the development was paid for as part of the Russian space research program, with the devices designed to replace having to use drugs, or have complex diagnositics, out in space. What the devices do is use computer controlled electrical impulses, designed to be copies of nerve impulses, to stimulate the body's C nerve fibers. These are the fibers where the body's endorphins (natural pain killers) are created, and stimulating the fibers stimulates the body to release these. When these are released, it is also a call to attention for the body to pay attention to the area and try to work on the problems.

According to the theory out there in energy medicine (and Scenar therapy), a lot of the chronic pain situations are apparenlty caused by the the body stopping the healing cycle before it is complete, leaving something still to work on. Even fairly primitive scenars help with pain relief, and can trigger the body to begin the healing process again. But the more basic (and of course less expensive) units are generally more motion oriented, while the more advanced, more automated ones, are often easier for someone to use, especially if they have restrictions in motion, etc. (where they simply have to put the device in place where it hurts, or at the associated trigger points, the symetrical points, etc. There is a take off on the earlier generation machines, actually made by a branch of Texas Instruments, using Russian technology but modified to add more automation - the Avazzia. It has FDA approval for pain relief, even though it is actually far more advanced than typical TENS (the rating it got its FDA approval under). It is used by a number of sports teams, and they have a process available on their web site for applying to have it covered by insurance programs, with the cost being much a lot more affordable. If someone is looking for pain relief, that may be a good option.

Going beyond pain relief, the Russians claim that even the more basic devices, with a good therapist and the right motions, etc, can help trigger some regeneration, and reverse some very challenging diseases. The RITM devices, and the Avazzia even, should be able to go that far. The most advanced of these devices (the Cosmodics - manufactured by LET Medical in Russia) are much more automated, can be used with little training, and have been shown to do a lot more regeneration. I've seen a number or reports with different minor types of nerve regeneration (no published reports yet of spinal regeneration - but before there are reports, people need to take try the technology, then be willing to share).

The thing that got me into using cosmodic technology was a finger injury, where my finger that was pretty well frozen in a bent position, caused by scar tissue, with the forecast by a hand specialist that it would be a year to a year and a half of stretching, casting, restretching, etc, then extensive physio, before I would have most of the range of motion back again. In 5 weeks with a cosmodic, the finger was freed up and I had 85% of original motion, I was discharged by the specialist and the occupational therapist, and the only restrictions still present are due to bone growth at the knuckle which limited extension a bit.

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• By truivia
• Posted May 18, 2009 at 1:45 am
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Quoted - "The implication from Truvia was that she may have a situation present that is further damage or deterioration waiting to happen."

That is correct - the further damage and the pain levels.

Bestgurl - that is very good advice! Thank You :)

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• By janders199
• Posted May 18, 2009 at 8:32 am
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I'm sorry, I guess I just don't understand. I am in constant pain, 24/7, throbing, ice pick like surprise hits. I never know when one ice pick hit will come, could be in the middle of a conversation with a loved one and I don't want to reveal the pain I am in or no one will want to be around me. I wish I could walk again, but I can't. I wish you weren't in pain. But I don't know what else to tell you except take the chair and continue to research for the right answer. Love, Jim

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• By truivia
• Posted May 18, 2009 at 1:26 pm
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Jim - your stronger then I am. When the ice pick ( very good description ) hits me, I do yell out. I am not sure if it is something I could hold in, the pain is so intense. Like you, I never know what will bring it on, sometimes nothing brings it on - just breathing ya know.

You each HAVE been a huge help to me and DO greatly appreciate the support. Thank You ♥

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• By Learning1
• Posted May 18, 2009 at 1:38 pm
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I wish the technologies (laser and scenar) were available for you to try. I can't help but feel that there would be some help in getting the body to both help heal situations and in pain relief. There are a few therapists using in some areas, but still pretty limited, and most who are using are using much more expensive, and generally more limited, units. From what I've seen them do in other situations, and the few situations I've heard of them being used properly with, it sounds like there is a great deal of potential available, both in helping control pain, and even in helping the stimulate the body to reach the optimum healing it can do. See my comments in the LLLT discussion.

There seems to be two elements with progress, and both seem connected. One is the the body's natural ability to heal and deal with its internal healing and related issues. They say that almost a third of all progress in healing, no matter how it is done, is in the realm that cannot be explained, and some doctors and researchers attribute to the "placebo effect", but probably goes much deeper than that. The other is providing the body the tools it needs to progress and heal itself, and to prompt it to trigger natural recovery processes. That is what devices like laser and scenar seem to do - they actually overcome points where the body stops trying to heal itself and gets the body started trying to fix itself again. Physics gets into some of the principles better than medicine. Damaged cells lose energy, and when that energy is restored, the cells are in a better postion to deal with issues present. The studies with rats, etc, show that this is not just mental or placebo effect, since the rats (and other test animals) don't have the same thought processes, yet respond anyway.

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• By pdecrease
• Posted May 20, 2009 at 6:55 am
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Well said!

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• By Learning1
• Posted May 20, 2009 at 12:57 pm
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Truvia's comments, and those by Janders199, about the pain, the intensity, and how it comes, reminded me of a couple things.

Dr. Irina Kossovoskaia mentioned some of the energy field photographs that were taken of amputees. The energy fields still showed where the missing limbs would have been, even though there was no limb present. Dr. Kossovoskaia is a former Russian eye surgeon, who eventually left behind traditional medicine and went into energy medicine, focussing on Scenar / Cosmodic and some laser, after her son completely recovered from Turretts Syndrome, which he'd had and symptons kept getting worse for a period of 7 years. The Russians, using Scenar technology and treatment techniques, treating the symetrical (opposite) side, have apparently had some success helping with the phantom pain amputees have experienced.

The thought this sparks is that, if the technology helps with phantom pain for amputees, and helps with the real pain situations that it clearly helps with (even basic 1990's technology machines have been proven to help with that, and have CE approval in England and Europe for pain relief, and a few scenar type units even have FDA approval for help with pain relief), they should help with reducing or controlling pain with SCI injuries also.

Both Scenar and Laser have been shown to help reduce swelling, which is probably a factor behind deterioration of spinal cord situations. It is the swelling which causes a great deal of the nerve injury damage following a SCI injury. Hence the success stories where they are able to control the swelling (whether with drugs, laser, scenar, or other methods) shortly after significant SCIs (one is related under the LLLT discussion). The problem is that the spinal cord is a confined area, and any swelling tends to strangle the nerves in the area.

Thinking about this, one thing that might help Truvia, and others like her, prevent further degeneration is to control or prevent swelling in those situations where excess movement, movement the wrong way, etc, might aggravate a tender or sensitive area. Immediate use of a tool that helps trigger the body to control the swelling should help limit or prevent the damage the swelling would cause. I know that the technique has worked with regular pulled muscle situations to quickly overcome the problems and avoid the stiffening and muscle splinting which would otherwise occur (which seems to be caused by muscle swelling, and would cause even more problems if it was in a confined area like the spinal column).

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• By truivia
• Posted May 22, 2009 at 1:32 am
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"is to control or prevent swelling in those situations where excess movement, movement the wrong way, etc, might aggravate a tender or sensitive area."

Yes - spot on correct ! That is the goal with me currently.

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• By horsestail
• Posted May 22, 2009 at 8:14 am
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I can walk too. I have had injury to L4/L5 and L5/S1 and though I can walk I use a chair too, but also a walker with a seat and a cane depending on what I am doing. I am somewhat like you where I have issues after sitting too long. I have to put my feet up or lay down. I think it is something to do with circulation that causes my problems, but just know what I need to do to make my life better for me.
I believe that you should get a second opinion and like was said from someone outside of the group where you have gone. Check out your university hospital. I found my hero at Emory University in Atlanta, GA. He is a neurologist specialist and recognized my needs and sent me to a neurosurgeon specialist who with his talented hands saved what I had and actually gave me some bonus of my inner thigh feeling returning after 18 months compression to the cauda equina.
My diagnosis was cauda equina syndrome.
I wish you the best,

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• By Learning1
• Posted May 22, 2009 at 2:18 pm
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I've heard that with some conditions it is difficult at times to totally avoid situations where aggravation can occur.

So until you can get your your back stabilized (and keep checking with the specialists until they either can stabilize for you, or can explain why it is not yet possible, or why the risk attempting stabilization is higher than the risk from not stabilizing), you may want to look at controlling what you can. You may not be able to completely eliminate the situations where aggravation occurs, but you should be able to control or prevent much of the inflamation which occurs as a result.

Even basic hand held lasers (if they have enough power) can help control inflamation and help with healing. And basic Scenars and Cosmodics have helped control inflamation and help trigger what healing was possible for other types of injuries. Thre are no side effects (unlike most drugs) from using these (as long as used IAW very simple basics), and they help control inflamation and help with healing in a lot of situations. These are options, though they often are ones outside what traditional doctors are trained in or familair with.

If you are interested, I can give a rundown on what seem to be the cost effective ones out there that I've seen (since for most with SCI, funds are quite limited).

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• By truivia
• Posted May 22, 2009 at 2:21 pm
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thanks again to everyone :)

sure learning - I am open to ideas

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• By Learning1
• Posted May 22, 2009 at 6:28 pm
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The first units I'll go through are lasers. I'll give you some background because it will help to understand the options.

Lasers work to add energy to the cells, which helps with recovery, and they help increse micro-cirulation to the area, and improve lymph drainage. As a result, they help reduce control and reduce swelling. And because of that, they help speed healing. That's why, for example, the example of the small bear who fell out of a tree, his hind legs were paralyzed, and was treated with a laser within hours afterward, made a fast recovery and had no residual problems (see the LLLT discussion for a link to the video on that). Lasers vary substantially in price and can vary in effectiveness.

You'll see lots of types of lasers. There are cutting lasers (like they use to cut steel and for surgery) - I understand these are classed as Class 4 lasers (or maybe even higher). These are not healing lasers and will not be discussed.

The next are the types of lasers used in various healing related applications, often called healing lasers or healing lights.

One is very low wattage (often only 5 miliwatt), which have little penetration (there is a high energy loss as the laser waves go into your body) and are only good for surface injuries, and take a long time to have much in the line of results because of the time it takes to get enought energy to the cells to do any good. These are Class 1 type lasers. This is the type of laser you'll see in the supermarket checkouts, and they are also used for cosmotology purposes, and for very shallow surface injuries, burns, etc. Although it is not recommended, if you briefly look into these, it won't hurt your eyes (like briefly looking at the sun).

The second are higher wattage (still considered Low Level because they are no higher than 500 milliwat), and they are often used for deeper results, used because of the fact that they send out a lot of extra energy to overcome the energy loss. These are class 3 lasers, and depending on the power output, they are either class 3A (i.e. the lasers that are around the 50 miliwatt output level) or class 3B (those in the hundreds of miliwats). Because of the intensity of the lasers it is not safe to look directly into them even for brief periods of time, and with many wave lenghts, you can't even see they are on because the light is at a non-visible range (but could still hurt your eyes). It is safer to use these with special goggles to avoid eye damage. Because of the power output, these are called "stimulating lasers". The reason many therapists and manufacturers have gone to these is because, as the laser rays enter the body, there is a rapid drop off of energy penetration. For example, one of the rat studies indicated that only 6% of the energy from the laser used actually made it to the spine where the injury was present. This is the range that most of the veterinary and human lasers operate.

The third type out there is the resonating laser with soliton wave technology. This is a low wattage laser (it uses the same 5 miliwatt laser diodes as the very low wattage lasers), but it has computer sync'ed the output of the laser diodes so they create soliton waves. Soliton waves are created when multiple waves come together at just the right moment and create super waves. In the ocean, this is the what causes tsunami's. Soliton waves lose very little energy when going though the body, so they have a lot higher penetration, and the percentage of the energy that actually penetrates to where it is needed is much higher. The end result is that you don't need the same power to get the results.

Why is the amount of power important? That is probably the big question. It seems to have something to do with the cells getting enough energy to do the job necessary. But at the same time you don't want to overload the cells, because when you pass a certain point, you stall the potential beneficial effects. The way I heard it described, it is like a bell curve. When going up in energy used, the benefits increase, to the point where maximum benefit is received. If energy keeps getting input, you start going downhill, with decreasing benefits, until you are at a point when you are back to no benefit added and you have to take some time off to give the body a chance to recoup and work on its healing. For normal cells (both plants and typical muscle cells, etc), it appears that the maximum has been shown to be about 8 joules of energy for any cubic centemeter, and it sounds like the safe spot, with optimum benefits, may be about half of that. Since the more powerful lasers put out the energy they do, you quickly get to that maximum point, especially if you are looking at the muscles between the point of injury and the skin, so you need to watch the time used. If you are looking at a joint, the amount of energy it can take is a lot higher. I suspect that for healing of muscles and exposed nerves, it is probably better to keep it to the flesh type dosage levels.

Now to get to my suggestions, based on everything I've seen to date.

You can find a number of the 5 mw lasers on the market, but unless you have lots of time, and are simply going to work on acupressure points with them, I suspect you would be disappointed with these, and although some of these start under $100, you would not be happy with the results.

The next category - the higher wattage low level lasers, are the type used by most therapists, and also which were used on the spinal studies involving rats and other animals. These are also what are typically used by the veterinarians and those who are involved with hores racing, etc. Most of the units used by the therapists are outside the average individual's price range, with most starting at around $15,000, although there are some lower priced semi-professional version for around $3,500, and some ex-demo units available for around $2000 (the site that has the most price effective of these that I've seen seems to be: http://www.ipl-systems.com/productslaser3000clinical.htm).

And then there is one unit that looks like it would be my choice for a portable, inexpensive, user friendly unit. It sells for $525 US plus S&H, and includes a number of materials. It has three - 200 mw laser diodes, meaning you can treat an area like your back quicly. The only thing you might want to consider extra is a pair of safety goggles that can prevent accidental eye damage. It is sold for veterinary use, but muscle and spinal problems with people are basically the same, and if it will work on a horse, it should work on a person. The site for that unit is http://www.vetrolaser.com/. With the wattage, you simply need to watch the time, since you probably will be at your maximum soft tissue energy limit in just a few minutes. For deeper stimulation (joints, etc), you could go longer. It is very portable - the size of a flashlight. Because it is a simple device, though, it does not include the computerized adjustments to reflect battery decline, so you'll want to use some good NIMH batteries, and keep them charged to the upper half of their charge to maintain maximum effectiveness.

The other option, if your budget allows more flexibility, is the only low level resonating laser I know of out there. But it is more expensive. Not as expensive as the commercial units, but still pricy enough, and it hasn't come down since it came on the market 5 or 6 years ago. That is the Q1000 (its little brother, the Q10, only has 1/3 the output, so for not suggested for back injuries, etc). That one, though, has been used for a lot of things beyond normal injuries. This is actually the main laser I use, and it is one that you can use for a much longer time without fear of overloading the system. It can be used like the very low level lasers (for skin and surface mucle injuries), but has also had success for depression and other unique situations. For example, over 5 years ago, it was the turning point for my nephew, who was high level autistic. It helped calm down his brain and bring some congruety there, and helped him make some major progress so how he's actually able to hold a job, live on his own (unsupervised), and he even has a girlfriend. And it apparenty has helped with depression, energy, etc.

The disadvantage is that the cost everywhere I've checked is $3,800 US plus S&H, and the price hasn't dropped over the years. I haven't foudn a place selling for less, probably because they are the only laser out there with this combination, and they are sinking a lot of money into FDA studies and woring on getting FDA approvals. They recenty received FDA approval for over the counter treating osteoarthritis of the wrist, and are working on other approvals. This is one of the lases made in the US, made in South Dakota. Since price doesn't vary on the units, the thing to look for there is extras they include when you purchase one. The best package of extras I've seen is through Soft Lasr Associates (http://www.gardenwithin.net/) and their associated companies. They have probably the best support system out there, include all 7 modes programmed (other dealers sell with only 3 modes included, and they charge $250 per extra mode), and they include a lot of training material for how to optimize your use of the laser.

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• By Learning1
• Posted May 23, 2009 at 4:02 am
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The other type of devices that I've used with friends, on other types of problems, to control pain and inflamation are the Scenars and Cosmodics. Both of these are Russian made devices that were actually developed through funding from the USSR space program in the late 1970s and into the 1980s. I'll give the basic background because it helps explain the situation with the different devices out there.

SCENAR is an acronym for Self Controlled Energo Neuro Adapative Reactor. It started with many of the principles of portions of eastern medicine, including some of the ideas from acupuncture, etc, and simply began applying electricity to the body to help trigger the body to recovery. The technology started with the basic Russian version of the TENS in 1973, and while it often helped, it often was simply short term relief, and TENS uses a very primitive square electronic wave, and basically only stimulated A fiber nerves. Scenar technology studied the body's nerve wave signals and attempted to copy those. Because of the difference in the wave signals, the signals were able to get to the body's C fiber nerves. The C fiber nerves are the deeper nerves, and when stimulated they stimulate the creation of endorphins - the body's natural pain killers. Endorphins are also are one of the body's triggers for calling the body's attention to areas that need the body's attention. Those who teach the use of Scenar, also point out that for chronic problems (ones that linger on and don't heal), the body tends to form an invisible barrier around the area and, as much as possible, tends to ignore the area. Scenars, with their nerve signal like signals, can call the body's attention to those areas again, and get the body to attempt to help heal those areas. And using the devices on areas of pain help the body quickly work through the issues present, and in the process helps reduce muscle tightness and associated swelling and pain.

When the Scenars were under development, the Solviets were looking for basically a device that they could send with their Cosmonauts that would avoid the need for drugs in space, both because drugs pollute the water that gets recycled, and because there is a lot of weight in bringing a complete pharmacy with you. As well, they were looking for something which could be used for a large number of problems and would not take all types of diagnostic equipment, which occupied both weight and space. When the USSR began to disintegrat, and funding dried up, the scientists who were working on the project were allowed to take what they developed with them and continue the development on their own. As a result, Dr. Revenko (a top neurologist who had been working on the project and developed the treatment techniques), Dr. Karasev (the engineer who actually invented Scenar technology, and before that, the Russian version of the TENS machine), and several others started a company called RITM. RITM continued the research and eventually came up with the initial public release versions of Scenar technology, and got approval for use in the Russian hospitals, etc. By 1990 they had developed a very workable technology, although much of the success at the time depended on the skill of the technician using the device.

In 1990, Dr. Karaseve went on his own and left RITM. RITM went on to tweak the original scenars slightly, and they claim that they have carried forward the advancements on those original technicians, but therapists who use it indicate that, although there are some extra features, and some more automation, it is basically the same technology as existed around the time Dr. Karasev left in 1990. RITM along the way partnered with several companies. Denas basically used late 1980's technology (which was even before the split), and other companies either partnered (and got), or were sold, the 1990's technology. And RITM went on to get CE approval in Europe, and FDA approval for pain relief in the US.

While RITM has their professional devices, these take a lot of training to do much with beyond the basics. And they have a good basic home device that uses the same underlying frequencies and alogrythms what make the professional units work. While the most recent home version was released within the last few years, the underlying technology is basically 1990's technology. There are some manual settings needed, but with just a bit of attention to some basic training they provide (both by book and video), it is pretty easy for most folks to learn how to use it for pain relief, and it works. I've got a friend who formerly had a major migrane every week, as well as other major pain issues. He hasn't had a migrane since he started to use it about 3 months ago, and his regular headaches regular muscle aches have been less severe. Another friend, with a vertebrae in his back that is badly degenerated, who had significant pain which prevented him from doing much, now has less pain and is able to do more in his daily life, all by promptly using the scenar on his back any time it starts acting up.

There are three locations that the home units are apparenlty manufactured. The one with the most consistently high quality apparenlty is the plant in Holland, which operates under the name RITMedic. There is a plant in Russia which does a reasonable job of quality control, but apparenlty not as good as the Holland plant. And a plant in China, which has had some issues, and I've heard they anywhere up to a 50% failure rate (and many of the units sold on EBay under the Chens 01 label apparenlty come from that line). The unit varies in price depending on where you get it from, and prices start at about 350 British pounds (for a demo unit from www.paingenie.net - and this unit comes off of the line in Holland), and go up to $1200. From what I've seen, the Pain Genie version seems to be the best deal on the RITM home units, and they seem to work well. To find these, go to the Pain Genie site an simply click on "ex-demo units". The disadvantage of the units is that they have an angle where they work best when held by someone else, and they are a bit more akward to work on your own back, even if you have full flexibilty, Also, effectiveness with these devices is in part related to motion, and if someone has more limitations, that extra motion to get the relief could be a challenge.

One device that I've heard of, which I understand is basically the same technology as the RITM units, but doesn't make claims to being a Scenar, is the Avazzai. They apparenlty purchased the right to use the RITM technology, so all the alogrythms are included. The device is made by Texas Instruments, and has been made more automated than the regular RITM units. It has been approved by the FDA for use in pain control, and the big advantage of this unit is that many insurance companies will consider paying for it, as does Medicare, so the ultimate out of pocket cost is fairly low. For more information on this, go to their web site at: http://www.avazzia.com/.

There are other francisee type manufacturers, some which operate with the older late 1980s technology (like Denas), and others that operate with basic early 1990s technology, but I don't know enough about any of the others to know if they have smaller home units that are effective, or what they would be effective for. And the RITM line seems to be the proven line of traditional scenar.

My favorite units are those produced by the original inventor, Dr. Karasev, who has carried forward his reseach and made a number of advancements since 1990, and his company is LET Medical. He now calls his technology Cosmodic. His devices have reportedly been more effective in stimulating the body toward regeneration, they are much more automated, and are much more gentle in their approach. And the best thing about them is that you simply put the device in the place with the problem and it goes to work. These devices have a basic Scenar signal as the carrier wave, and they carry 46 resonances. It listens for the body's activity and will adapt its response to what the body is saying.

His higher end units have got a lot of potential, but the price is also up there, with a list price of 4380 Euros (just over $6,100 US), before any US dealer mark-ups (which can be as high as $1000 extra). But they can do a lot. I have one of their basic personal units (the PS705mini), which lists for 650 Euros (about $900 US), which seems to help with many problems and aches and pains, and helped a friend begin improving from carpel tunnel related inflamation. The unit that impresses me, though, is their newest personal device, the PS705miniAG. This one has an updated operating chip (the 715 chip), so it has a more refined signal than the unit I have, it has siler electrodes (which are supposed to help), and also has built in magnets, which are also supposed to help. It is both small and flat, so it can be easily put behind your back and it will stay there. That unit lists for 980 Euros (about $1365 US).

Their devices are approved for use in the Russian hospitals, but to my knowledge, they don't have formal approval in other jurisdictions, so the chance of getting funding from insurance plans, etc, is remote at best. And buying the devices from North America can have some challenges. The primary North American distributor is Mediscen. It sounds like their price is about $1500 for the little unit I have, and more of course for the newest Ag version. But they provide training and support as part of this price. You can buy direct from LET Medical but they only accept payment by bank draft, and they only ship to North America by UPS, and North American shipment is $160 US. The most cost effective method to get LET Medical devices is to buy from their Ukranian distributor, who accepts Paypal and several other payment options, and ships by a special shipping company which operates out of Toronto, and services the Ukranian community worldwide. The Ukranian distributor covers the shipping cost to Toronto, and the purchaser is responsible for shipping from there. But they are not able to supply a lot of support. The device is simple enough so, for most people, they should be able to use without a lot of training, You simply place it in the place that hurts, or has its issues, and let it do its work. And some materials are available on the internet, etc. that will provide extra ideas. Too late tonight to dig up the reference sites, but I'll post those later.

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• By Learning1
• Posted May 23, 2009 at 3:04 pm
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A few other details to add on the Scenars and Cosmodics.

There are actually three different RITM home scenars, and they go under several different names. The Difference between them is the number of manually set frequency levels. The most basic has one manual and one modulation frequency setting, the next has two manual settings plus the modulation, the best has four settings plus the modulation. For the price difference, the one to go for is the one with four settings since the higest one is an extra one for controlling pain, and the lowest one is one to help stimulate recovery. The names I've seen them sold under are RITM Home Scenar, RITM Sports Scenar, and Pain Genie. They are all the same unit. As mentioned in the last post, the least expensive seems to be the ex-demo units sold under the Pain Genie label. Still good units, in good shape, and they come with a basic pain control training video, for 350 British pounds.

The Avazzai units are a bit more automated, and I understand that the design is one that would work better for someone with less flexibility. I understand they are more expensive than the Pain Genie ex-demo units, but as mentioned, often Medicare and many of the medical plans will pay for a large portion, sometimes making the net cost to the person as low as around $130. So both cost effective, and a more usable configuration for someone who is self treating and with more limited motion. And it apparently includes all the 1990 era RITM analogs. Because of the ease of use, I understand that many of the sports teams are using it for pain control, with the side effect of control of swelling, and speeding healing.

The Cosmodics are more advanced technology, the result of 15 years more research from the original designing engineer, designed for using on the body at points the body identifies as problem areas, to stimulate the body to work on these areas. And apparently the Russian doctors and thapists who have used, and other therapists etc who have reported results, have had deeper results and more regeneration from these. They work best on point specific use, with the device doing a high level of biofeedback and adjusting the signals to the body's needs. Because of the level of feedback, and the gentler approach, this would normally be my technology of choice for many problems.

Scenar works by being put on the skin, sending out a signal similar to the signal put out by the nerves, like a cry for help, then it waits for the body's response and tries to mimic it, giveing the body an amplified call to the body to help work on the area. The skin connectivity is called galvonic skin response. It is a genuine biofeedback device, giving the body signals, watching for responses, and modifying its responses accordingly. Scenar provokes, waits for a response, then modifies signals accordingly. While it works on acute problems, it is best at starting chronic problems moving again.

Cosmodic is similar, working on the skin also, and uses a similar electronic signal, but uses it as a carrier wave for an additional 46 resonances. But the carrier wave signal is a gentler signal, and it is not as aggressive. And it starts out differently. If left on its own, it starts out listening for the body's own signals to the area of the body, rather than provoking a response. It takes longer to get going, especially with chronic problems, and since it is a gentler nudging it may take a bit longer for immediate pain relief, but it seems to be more complete and longer lasting when it comes. For acute problems, with immediate pain and signals, it responds fast also, just treats in a gentler manner. And if nerves are involved, I would suspect that it is probably a bit more effective. As my 9 year daughter points out, though, the cosmodics (at least the little one) has a mind of its own. It may raise in intensity a bit when initially getting its bearings, or in response to specific signals of the body, but the results are well worth it.

There are actually several types of Cosmodic devices put out by LET Medical (the only manufacturer of Cosmodics). Quality control is good because the inventor apparenly hand tunes and checks each device himself. The oldest of the group came out in 2002, has a mixed Scenar and Cosmodic signal, and is the most aggressive unit for its signals. Because of the more aggressive signal, plus the listening abilty, it is what LET Medical suggests as the unit to use for working on atrophied muscles. The next in age (the Cosmodic EX715) (2550 Euros - approx $3550 US), released in 2005, was the first unit to have a pure cosmodic signal, and it was a high resolution listening unit with a digital read-out to help identify areas to treat. The next series was released in 2006, the cosmodic PS705 and the cosmodic PS705mini - same chip for both, just a difference in size of batteries, unit size, electrode size, and the mini doesn't have a plug for external electrods. These are true cosmodic but the signal is apparently not as refined and doesn't have the same resolution as the EX715, so it takes longer to get detailed responses than with the 715. Then in 2007 the EX715 was released, which had the same technology as the 715, but even more robust in approach, and it was a dual mode machine where it could switch back and forth between pure cosmodic and pure scenar, and could work either automatic or manual, and could be set with gentle settings for children and very sensitive areas. The final units, just released in 2009, are the PS705miniAg. This unit, according to Dr. Karasev (the inventor), actually has a 715 chip in it (with the more refined signals), has silver electrodes with embedded magnets etc. It seems to be the ulitmate little personal device. It is the same size as the regular PS705mini, but has a deeper and faster interaction. It doesn't have any read-outs and is small for holding by a therapist, but easy for individuals to have with them and to use in any setting.

For devices, if the budget allows it, the top of the line Cosmodic unit, the EX735Ag Modific is probably the most robust and most beneficial for an all around device, but the price is stiff at around $6100 for the normal price, before any surcharges. The best and most cost effective option for most people is still not cheap, is the PS705miniAg. It is a lot more affordable, and offers most of the same benefits and the same refinement of signals, and the normal price, before surcharges, is only around $1365 US. I use the earlier, PS705mini, with the less refined signal, and it has worked well on a number of problems. And it is easy to simply strap on with some of the inexpensive elastic straps available, and I just let it sit there and do its work.

Now for sources and information about the Cosmodic devices.

LET Medical's web site is at http://scenar.ru/en/. They describe the devices available, show the list pricing, have a lot of information on the technology, they have probably 60 articles there, and they have a FAQ and a forum where questions can be posted about the technology and various issues, and people can respond. One of the articles, by a Russian doctor, may be of interest with regard to the effectiveness of controlling swelling etc for spinal cord injuries: http://www.scenar-therapy.com/publications/neck/. You can buy directly from them, but it is not the easiest process, since they only accept payment by bank transfers, and only ship to North Americal by UPS (which charges $160 for the shipping).

The next place is the major North American distributor, who also includes a lot of training and support and a lot of on-line training materials, both to explain the devices, and help explain how to use them. The benefit of their company is their trainign and support. They have several web sites, and the owner of the company is a former Russian eye surgeon who left traditional medicine because of the effectiveness of Scenar technology. She is a testimony of the effectiveness of Scenar type technology. Her primary web site is www.truescenar.com. An associated site is http://www.laserscenarfusion.com/. She has some short videos on the site explaining how she got involved in the technology and some of its history, she has a lot of articles about Cosmodic.

Look at a lot of the materials on the sites, and the videos, for a background. Also, under Training, Dr. Irina and her partner have a training session on the more advanced and simple true scenar device, the by the English name of the DOVE (also known as the Myoscen035M in Russian). It is a good little true and automated scenar, but at what they sell it for ($1895 US), it is pricy, and for the average person with problems that can use regeneration, for the price it is better to go with a true Cosmodic device. The DOVE is good for things that need immediate attention, like the RITM home device and the Avazzai. It has better automation than these, but I haven't gone through this because, from a cost standpoint, I'm not sure that the benfits are that much greater than their competition, and to date they have not qualified for funding by insurers (the benefit of the Avazzai).

The benefit of their company is that Dr. Irina and her partner have some great training materials. But pricing is higher. On the least expensive unit, her pricing seems to be around $500 or so above the price listed on the LET Medical site, and on the most expensive one, it seems to be around $1000 more.

The least expensive source for the LET Medical devices is from the Ukranian distributor for LET Medical. They sell for LET Medical's advertised prices (no mark-up). They take payment by PayPal, plus several other sources, avoiding the need for doing bank money transfers (which often cost around $100 do do), and they include shipping costs to Toronto, Ontario, Canada, shipping via a Canadian company that services the Ukranian community worldwide, http://meest.net, avoiding the $160 UPS costs (there is a nominal shipping from there, but costs from Toronto are a lot less than from Russia or the Ukrane). They operate using two web addresses:
http://www.scenarshop.com and http://scenar-cosmodic.com
Their two email addresses are: info@scenarshop.com and info@scenar-cosmodic.com
It sounds like they may also be able to handle the Myoscen035 in the near future, and if so, I suspect that their price will probably be around $900 or $950 for that device (same unit as the DOVE, but just under a Russian label, and at about half of what the DOVE sells for in North America, suddenly making it an option to consider if someone is looking for a true Scenar unit, since it seems to be more automated, and have a more accurate signal, than the others - picture on the LET Medical history site, probably around 2006).

That's basically it for the information on Scenar and Cosmodic pricing. Hope it gives you some ideas and things to consider.

Good luck in your choices. I think there are some good options out there. The challenge is simply deciding what can work the best for you, and figuring out how to be able to afford the technology. I suspect that, once you start using this technology, you will need less pain medication, and your flexibility will improve and things that constrain you will decrease. I've seen this happen with other conditions, and there is no reason the same results should not occur with what you described.

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