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embryo stem cell research ban finally lifted

MARTY_T_67
1 Recommendation

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090309/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_stem_cells

Explore topics in this discussion:

Cancer Quadriplegia Pain Memory Abortion Paralysis

18 replies

Nina372

Hello MARTY_T_67,

I hope you don't mind me sharing my difference in opinion.
In 2005 I had caught the flu and it destroyed my autonomic system and nervous system causing paralysis and a ton of other health problems.
There are so many ways scientists can get stem cells now days, they can get them from cord blood, baby teeth, adults, and many more ways. My question is why do they have to get it from innocent life?
When I first became paralyzed someone asked me if I would ever be willing to support embryonic stem cell research my answer was no. I told that person that I would be willing to spend the rest of my life in a wheel chair if it saved even only one life from being taken for research.
I do support stem cell research just not embryonic research. Sometimes I wonder what those children would be like if they had the chance to live? would they be teachers, parents, lawyers, or even doctors that can find a cure for cancer?
any way its just my opinion thanks for posting this new info.

Nina

Friend4Life

Hey Marty... thanks for th info.

I do have a question, was wondering if stem cell research has shown any progress in the area of brain injury?

My friend Lee was paralyzed on May, 2 2008. As a group family and friends agree. We could easily live and accomodate his physical disabilities, a whole lot easier than the mental one. WOW, you would not believe how frustrating it is for us. Our belief that it has to be multiple times more frustrating, confusing, and dibilitatin for him TOO.

Any info you can share to help educate me would be awesome.

Thanks

luckydog

Nina,

The ban on funding embryonic stem cells research did not save a single life. Not one embryo. They were all “discarded”… tossed into the trash. If you want to save embryos from destruction, a ban must be placed on their creation and storage.

I see it like organ donating… if I am going to die anyways, I would like someone to have my organs and live a wonderful life. Actually, even if I am not going to die anyways, I would give my life for a cure. I would give it today, if it meant you could walk tomorrow.

Cheers.

MARTY_T_67

hi friend4life
i remember when you 1st came on here looking for support as we all do. i spent quite some time searching info on stem cell research for TBI (tramatic brain injury) after i read your post. all im coming up with is that type of research is in its infancy. but now that the ban is lifted we can hope that more effort can now be put into that type of injury.

jlubin

Well I know I'm in the minority but I don't think human embryos should be harvested for stem cells. I don't believe in the IVF process that creates these embryos either. I believe it is a human life from the point of conception, the joining of an egg and a sperm. Just because the embryo is not going to used for IVF doesn't mean it should then be alright to kill it by removing stem cells from it. They were only discarded because a choice was made to discard them rather than implanted in a woman's uterus.

This is how it differs from organ donation. When organs are donated, a person is declared dead by doctors before the person is removed from life support and organs are harvested for transplant. When stem cells are removed from and otherwise viable "leftover" embryo, it is the remove of the stem cells that kills the embryo. The stem cell are not being removed from a dead embryo.

To use your analogy, I am dependent on a ventilator to breathe. Remove me from the ventilator long enough and I am "going to die anyway" so does that make it alright to harvest my organs so someone else can live longer? Everyone is going to die at some point in time. What makes my life of less value to someone else's in need of a health organ?

So with a human embryo it can remain frozen, i.e. on life support, until implanted.

Just another thought about what should be considered "a human life". I believe that a human egg and human sperm make a human being from the time they are joined, from that point the zygote contains all the 46 chromosomes need to be human and it continues to develop on it's own from that point. That's the biological facts.

I find it interesting that back on August 7, 1996, remains of a single celled organism was discovered in a meteorite from Mars and the world acknowledge that as proof of life once existed on Mars. Jump forward a few years and a multi-celled human embryo, something we all began life as, is not considered a life? I don't see how people can so easily dismiss a human embryo as being a human life.

The new executive order allows federal funding from existing stem cell lines created after 2001, which the previous ban was on. It does not allow for federal funding of obtaining new stem cell lines from human embryos.

MARTY_T_67

one of the great things about our country is that we have our freedom of speech and can voice our opinions. there are so many pros and cons on every subject matter that exists.
most of us here are hoping for cures and lifting this ban will allow advanced research. in my own opinion if it was viewed as killing a living human being...they would think deeper about lifting the ban. even abortion is still legal and thats done beyond the stages used for embryo stem cell research.
i hope this research brings us many cures!!!

pinkharleygurl

As a woman of faith this may sound like hypocrisy. I too believe that life begins at conception in the womb. These fertilized eggs cannot grow into a fetus in the dish. They are being thrown away - which is the decision of the owner. To compare this to abortion is absurd. An aborted fetus has begun to grow in the womb. Yes, both are being "trashed." Let's get real here. How many people have donated a kidney to save a life of a relative? They are still alive living with one kidney. So that comparison doesn't hold water.

We are not talking about harvesting eggs from women just to have the fertilized for stem cells. We are talking about discarded embryos. The types of stem cells from other sources such as cord blood, adults, etc. can't produce the cells that this particular science is researching.

I am not a religious person, I am a woman of faith. The difference is about relationship not what some church or organized religion tells me what to believe. If this stem cell research leads to a cure for disease and paralysis I'm all for it. If my son who has the same blood type as I needed a kidney, I would be the first in line.

I recommend all of those who use religion to have a negative stance on this issue should review the true meaning of our founding fathers' separation of church and state. It was to keep government out of churches and vice versa. It has been twisted around by a minority of athiests.

Let's hear from all those who are paralyzed. I love all the caregivers on this site but all of you can walk, go to the bathroom when needed, stand in the shower, reach things on the top shelf in the grocery store, toss and turn in your bed at night while asleep, make love the old fashioned way, the list is endless. You can only imagine what we feel or should I say don't feel.

Pink

JennDianne

That's to sweet of you.

Dunitgood

What Pink said! An embryo that is not in a womb will never become a human being. There is a lot of difference between abortion and harvesting stem cells from an embryo that will be discarded anyway. The fetus in its Mothers womb will become a human being unless something such as an accident, disease, or abortion interrupts it's development. The embryo that is not in a Mothers womb will never become a human being unless it is put in a womb. The embryo that is created in a laboratory will never develop into a human in its current environment.

MARTY_T_67

you are very right. here is a link stating the stages where it must adhere to the uterine lining before it can starts to form. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_development

and this site explains what embrionic stem cells are and how they're grown in a lab.
http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics3.asp

Friend4Life

Hey Pink,

This is in response to your final paragragh. My friend Lee was injured last year. This has been a long and tough road. I can not even fathom what it is like. I have pondered, considered, thought, and cried about it. But in the end there would be no possible way an able bodied person could relate to what it is you (the paralyzed/and others) deal with on a daily basis. I made a promise to my friend, I promised him that he would not have to do this alone.... I stand by that promise and that is all I can offer.

Sometimes, as bad as things are you need to find the positives. Lee has a traumatic brain injury on top of his incomplete quadriplegia. We, his circle of caretakers can not even help him to accept this mentally. That is all we ask for at this point. So that he can help us help him. Imagine, being unable to tell your caregiver your basic needs. We have to do for him what we THINK(?) is best. We know Lee, as difficult as it is, would be able to attack this and keep living, unfortunately without his short term memory we can not build the foundation to healing. Mentally or physically as he does not believe there is anything wrong. He tells us he is in his wheelchair "because it is easier than walking" (I am sure you would disagree) These are very long days for us. But we do it for him with pride, vigilence, tenacity, because our social system gave us no CHOICE. They spent over 2 million dollars to save his life....now we can't even get a nurses visit. So our choice comes now. We choose to provide for him. We choose to help him. We choose to not be detered by the system that saved his life, and then told us he should be institutionalized. F*&#'ed up!

Maybe if you take a moment and realize that a large percentage of people do not mind getting things off the top shelf for those unable, be it paralysis, old age, little people, or any other mattter. All you have to do is ask.... most of us are willing, and understanding. Please, just ask.... at least YOU know what you need!

Alot of us have imagined, situationally, what it must be like, and that is the reason we are here for those that need us, unconditionally. For anybody to believe that we could even begin to ascimilate what a day in the life for someone with paralysis is equally unfair.

I have read your replies and posts and know that you are an intelligent and caring person. I do not mean to start a "beef" with this post. I just find it most unfair that no matter how tough your situation is, think of the others around you. I have come here for the support of all of you. Especially those of you who are living with your situation and can educate and train me, as Lee is unable to tell us what his needs are.

Everyone here has been wonderful, including yourself, I guess that last paragraph struck a nerve. But like I said, maybe in retrospect you can be a little more appreciative. Instead of asking us to do the impossible, thank us for what it is we do, ask us for what it is we can do, more importantly INSPIRE us with what it is YOU can do.

Like I said, I am not mad, or starting anything here, just thought the last statement was a little unfair. For we give only what we know, we do only what we think is best, we are willing to do more, but do not want to take from you the independence that you still have. (your mind)

paramissjuls

Hello everyone, haven't been on here in awhile. First and far most everyone is entitled to their own opinions and we have to remember that we each have to answer for those opinions or decisions. I think the most important thing is for those who oppose the embryonic stem cell research, actually needs to research the process of using these particular cells and their origination. I personally got to go and ask questions and become more familiar with the whole aspect of using the embryonic stem cells and from the looks of some of the views, not everyone has done their homework (I would highly recommend this). No matter how bad I want a cure or for anyone else for that matter, I'm sure none of us want to take the life of another human being.

The government doesn't really know it's view on the whole humanity of life. I would like them to explain to me the difference in allowing abortion and on the other hand not allowing the embryonic stem cells. They have already figured a way to get the needed cells without harming the development of a fetus. But vice versa to that, there are abortion clinics that will still do an abortion up to 16 weeks and this is a viable fetus.

It's just all about what sounds good at the time and the groups and parties who are being financially supportive. It really isn't about the humanity of life. You know none of us deserved what's happen and we all deserve an equal chance to a cure. I'm just thankful for people willing to press on and not give up. Just think 60 years ago, people living in chairs were not even accepted in a community. Thank God for the change of times, technology, and medical research.

pinkharleygurl

Hi Friend4life,

I'm sorry if my post offended. As I have previously stated, people like you and your circle of caregivers warm my heart. I have a friend I met in re-hab hospital who is now in a nusing home because even her family cannot be bothered to help her. I commend all y'all do. At 5'11 I was usually the one helping people get things from the top shelf in the grocery store. I didn't mean to focus on the negative. There is so much more than not being able to walk that we have to deal with. That is the point I was trying to make.

Please understand, I have prayed about this and while I only have my opinion to offer, it is from my heart. I would never want the loss of human life to cure my paralysis. As I stated in my post, the embryos, in my opion, are not viable human life as they are not in the womb.

There is a huge meeting with stem cell research Drs. in Austin tomorrow. I can't go because of transportation issues and my husband's work schedule. I have, however, done some research on my own and know that in foreign countries, there have been advances in curing paralysis using embryonic stem cells.

I was estranged from my oldest son due to a very nasty divorce. I had not seen him since April 2004. The accident was August 2007. He came to visit me in CCU wearing the shirt I gave to a friend to give him (which I thought he would have thrown away). It was worth paralysis to hold him in my arms again. I cannot tell you what it's like to have him back in my life (and his new bride). It is a bittersweet story - which I'm sure we all have. Perhaps I'm a bit selfish wanting to have my body back. But having my son back is priceless. The real kicker is, had it not been for my Grandmother, God rest her soul, I would not have kept him when I was pregnant due to my separation from my 1st husband. That was 27 yrs ago (way before I started walking with the Lord). Ironic don't you think.

Friend4Life

Hey Pink,

First off thank you....

Second off I want to reconfirm, I was never mad,offended or angry. just struck me wrong that someone in your situation would ask us to relate.

Third to everyone else I apologize for going off subject....

As for stem cell research..I hope that our system uses it appropriately. We don't need duplicates, we do need regeneration. We have been given an opportunity to let a cell do what a cell does. We (society) have found a way to guide that cell, and hopefully we will decide to guide it faithfully with a good conscious to help those in need. Regardless of faith I will allow anyone to do almost anything to give Lee his mind back. I don't even care about the physical, I (we) can handle that. It is the TBI that is causing us so much grief and concern for his future. If we or he can fix that, then we will worry about the small stuff. We are in perfect agreement, I would never want anyone to willfully suffer to improve Lee's situation, I agree that the embryo's science is using today are not true embryo's rather cell clusters that have not yet formed a fetus...A huge difference in my opinion.

Thanks Pink.... Hope your having a great day. I am glad to hear about your son. Bittersweet, yes, but as you said, "priceless" Let us all stick together and allow science to help those in need.

pinkharleygurl

Hi Friend4life,

Thanks for your reply. I guess I didn't fully understand Lee's condition. Embryonic stem cells can be transformed into any type of cell - even brain. So we must pray for Lee, the scientists and doctors that he can receive treatment soon. He is so very blessed to have his guardian angels (care team of friends) looking out for him.

Pink

Echairsitter

Thank You, I love all your opinions. That's what seperate us from all the other creatures on earth.

I am glad to hear that we are in agreement that we don't want to live in the dark age. We have advance so much and has so much potential for greater things, but as human we need to know that we are not God.

That being said, if you had not experience the fullness of what a disable person goes thru you can not know and understand 90 percent of what a disable person goes thru. I do not wish anyone experience all that I have been thru. I don't want you know the pain and suffering that is greater than being in prison for life or the simple thing that you take for granted now and that would replay in your mind "I could have taking life more serious".

The current stem cell research and advancement may not be able help me or other like me that has been paralyzed to long, but I want my kids and everyone to have a chance to continue their life with peace of mind. Granted they will not learn or understand full knowledge being disable but it's what I want for my children, everyone I care about, everyone who care for me, and other that I do not even know to experience. Like that of my childhood memory of hunger, fear, death, and destruction as a result of war when I was 6 years old. I thank God everyday that they do not have to experience this now.

Thank you all for reading and let's not fight. Let's all of us work together and help each other. Even if we can not do thing normally, but a single word can move mountain.

jlubin

I am all for stem cell research, as long as the stem cells are from non human embryo sources.

Since it's the government's responsibility to protect life, remember "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", it first better come up with a definition of what constitutes a "life".

Are you aware that President Obama signed H.R. 1105, the “Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009,” on March 11th (2 days after signing the executive order to lift the ban on federal funding of embryonic stem cells) that contained the following:

The text of Section 509 of the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, reads as follows:

SEC. 509. (a) None of the funds made available in this Act may be used for—(1) the creation of a human embryo or embryos for research purposes; or (2) research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death greater than that allowed for research on fetuses in utero under 45 CFR 46.204(b) and section 498(b) of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 289g(b)). (b) For purposes of this section, the term ‘‘human embryo or embryos’’ includes any organism, not protected as a human subject under 45 CFR 46 as of the date of the enactment of this Act, that is derived by fertilization, parthenogenesis, cloning, or any other means from one or more human gametes or human diploid cells.

Guess he should have READ the “Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009 before signing it into law...

I followed the link on http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/FY2009OmnibusAppropriationsActPu blicReview/
to see if it was true, sure enough, it's in there

http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/2009_Con_Bill_DivF.pdf

If you want to read it yourself, pg 128, lines 9 - 24. there are 2 pages inserted so it is page 130 of the pdf.

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