curcumin

My mon was diagnosed with ovarianian cancer 2 years ago. Her CA-125 started rising and i am looking for alternative treatement. Does any of you use curcumin as a dajly supply and what dose was recommended? I read a study about good sinergy effects of curcumin and Biobran. Did anyone use both the supplements?

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Yes. 8,000 mg /day. That's based on the study of a doctor at M.D Anderson in Houston. I also take some 15 other supplements, based upon what i've read on this Board (thank you all SO much) and a number of books as well. best to all.

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I take the equivalent of 8grams per day based on a naturopaths determination of the particular product I'm using. I can't say for sure that it's prolonging remission, but it doesn't hurt (except the pocketbook)

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I take 8000 mg tumeric (95% curcumin) a day. No side effects.

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Can you take it during treatment?

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xanthic: can you share with us what these 15 supplements are? I am curious.

Jenny:

I don't know what you mean "looking for alternative treatment". Do you mean, you are considering alternative treatment as a substitution for the traditional treatment, or do you mean you would like to add alternative treatment options to the traditional treatment?

If you mean latter, you will get lots of advice on diet, nutrition, supplement, exercise, etc: all in the integrative oncology realm.

If you mean former, my input would be "caution". I don't know what your mother's diagnosis, and I am in NO position to impose my opinion on you or your mom, but let me just add this one observation: Even the most well known authority (Dr. Block) on integrative oncology, whose book is regarded as a definitive piece of work in the field recommending and advocating all options outside of traditional western medicine, such as diet, nutrition, exercise, mind-body connection and what not, do NOT consider these alternative treatment options as substitution.

He considers these as supplemental arsenals to the primary treatment options (chemo, surgery, radiation, etc). One of his goals for patients who are very sick, sometimes too sick to withstand chemo or surgery, is to use all these alternative treatments to bring the patient's health to a level where s/he can go through chemo and surgery, etc. He advises using these alternative treatment options as a way to keep the patient healthy during chemo, as a way to make chemo even more effective, as an option to mount additional attack on cancer cells together with chemo, and when the patient is in remission, as a way to prevent recurrence.

Personally, I would never eschew proven mainstream medical options and use alternative methods as my primary treatment option. This is coming from someone who has bought the whole integrative oncology mantra lock, stock, and barrel - as a supplementary and preventive option.

Just my two cents, with whici you can buy a cup of coffee with additional $1.97.

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Sure. Here's what I take every day: flaxseed oil pills, (for omega 3 as I'm allergic to fish), 3,000 mg; turmeric/curcumin, 8,400 mg; liposomal vitamin C, 1,500 mg; maitake D, 1,200/mg, combined mushroom therapy, 650/mg; biotin,5,000 mcg; beta 1,3; vitamin E, 1,000 mg (but not when I go to the gym); cranberry extract, 100 mg (not when I go to the gym); IP-6, 1,020 mg; CoQ10, 200 mg; quercitin, 200 mg; alpha lipoic acid,150 mg; Vitamin D3, 2,500 I.U., every other day: agaricus blazai, 1,000 mg; apigenin, 50mg: prickly pear cactus extract, 1,000 mg; organic green tea, 4 cups and organic papaya tea, 2 cups and a multi vitamin, every other day. All of this has been`cleared with an onc who also uses an inegrative approach. He's not my treating onc but I use him as a consultant. He said that "good" free radicals are created during exercise and so that's why some supplements are not taken during exercise days. Best to all.

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@ xanthic: Thanx for your information. I've been taking most of those and a few more (enzymes, modified citrus pectin) for the last year, and feel I have had luck with diet and supplements. However, a recent CT scan showed some progression, so I'm biting the bullet and starting on carbo/taxol this week. I've been researching furiously to see what supplements are a good idea, and am definitely going with the mushroom formulations, glutamine, my heavy-duty vitamin preparation, aloe vero, garlic and green tea even on the day of infusion. Have you been advised if curcurmin and quercitin should be OK on infusion day and the 72 hrs. thereafter? I would feel really lost without being able to take all my favorites! Haven't found an oncologist yet who knows the first thing about any of this, so I've just had to research it on my own. Infusion day + 72 hrs is supposed to be the maximum "kill" period, so I'd like to know if your professional thinks there's a problem with taking stuff then.

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realtime,

I cringe about what I am about to say, since it goes against all my broohaha about scientific research and what not.

But I will add my experience as a SINGLE data point, and it should really just be considered a single data point that may not mean ANYTHING.

I was declared to be in remission last week - unexpectedly- after a completion of 18 week dose dense treatment (chemo every week) - I thought that odds were against that happening given my initial DX and where I started from, so I was fully prepared for longer treatment. (stage 3C OVCA or stage 4B UPSC, extensively metastatic ALL OVER the abdominal/pelvic area, various small nodules and a lime sized tumor left behind after the surgery (couldn't be excised). mid chemo CT scan showing no shrinkage of the large tumor).

Anyway, I took curcumin, mega dose of green tea, close to a bulb of garlic, and all sorts of super healthy vegetables, all of which are powerful antioxidant, EVERY DAYS chemo or not. Obviously, none of these seemed to have interfered with the effectiveness of chemo FOR ME (just one data point).

*** looking back, it could very well be the case that by mid chemo, the tumor was mostly dead but the shell did not shrink yet, hence showing as the same size on the CT scan....

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ETO-- I am curious as to why you did not take the mushroom supplement during chemo?

Linda

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I read some concerns about liver complications from the mushroom supplements while on chemo. I read some articles about some integrative oncologists recommending curcumin while on chemo, and NOT mushrooms.

No definitive science that made me decide one way or the other. I decided to play safe on this front.

I am starting to take mushroom supplements now.

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I read about that as well. I did not take mushrooms during chemo but was extremely impressed with the research on them. I took them erratically after chemo and then stopped. Facing a rising CA 125, I am taking them again along with the curcumin.

Linda

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Hi again. I forgot that I too take citrus pectin. I've been off chemo for six months and went into remission supposedly in March. Dx in April, 2010, surgery 19 days later at MSK, 3C, high grade, serous, epithelial. As many on the Board know, my chemo was VERY zig-zaggy, lots of complication. My last CA-125 was 30, down from 120 in January, and the HE-4 was 124 from Quest and 113 from Mayo clinic. The Quest value dropped 4 points and the Mayo value increased by 40 points from March. Best to all.

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Interesting about mushroom supplements--I've been researching dexamethazone and am not pleased to find that it wipes out T cells and prevents apoptosis of cancer cells. (And oncologists wonder why things "come back") One of the correspondents on this cite said to google dexamethasone and IL 2 for research on this topic. Of course, without T cells, the immune system is pretty naked. (Look at AIDS) . I did a little checking and find that selenium and mushrooms--particularly maitake extracts--rebuild T cells (although it's more complicated than that. )
My oncologist said I wouldn't be able to tolerate taxol without dex, but he said I could take half a dose (10mg) the night before the infusion. Maybe that'll help a little. --(I found a rat study where a low dose was better...but then it was a totally different kind of cancer) He also said a taxol analog, abraxene (sp?) eliminates the need for dex, but he said it is so new (??approved in 2005?) that he would rather do the standard firstline treatment of carbo and taxol for now.
I'm going to keep researching the mushrooms, because it seems they should be protective. And thank you xanthic for your feedback that you continued with curcurmin et al. the entire duration. That emboldens me, too!

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Oops, I mean, thanx evertheoptimist for your info on curcurmin during chemo...and congrats on your great response!

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How long have you been in remission?

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Hi Zircons. Six and a half months assuming my blood tests due this week are at the same or lower values. It's always nerve wracking waiting for the results. Best to all.

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realtimedyno
not only dexamethasone wipes out T cells, but also chemo itself reduces activity of NK cells as Greg explained in this thread, so I agree with your statement "and oncologists wonder why things come back":

http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-alliance/discussion/q uestion-for-greg-re-natural-killer-cells-and-wbc/?ref=as

"According to the NCI, chemotherapy has been found to reduce the activity of the immune systsem's natural killer cells by 96%. So if there are tumors growing elsewhere in the body and if the immune system helps to control tumor growth, then chemotherapy could make things worse by allowing more rapid growth of the other tumors.

There are several mechanisms of immunosuppression, the most obvious being the predictable reduction in the white blood cell count following most forms of chemotherapy. The second mechanism of immunosuppression is a reduction in lymphocytes and plasma cells, which also assist in fighting infections"

Medicinal mushrooms stimulate the activity of NK cells (in Japan they are used as a complement to chemotherapy), so it makes sense to include them to try to prevent recurrence and repair what chemo has destroyed. IMO that's the big problem with conventional cancer treatment. After chemotherapy - you are told that you are in remission and don't have to do anything else. Meanwhile your immune system has been wiped out and while it tries to recover, stray microscopic cancer cells have time to get stronger and take hold again, not allowing your body to fight it off.

That's the main reason why Dr. Block's approach makes a ton of sense to me:
Attack; eliminating all visible disease, this will be done through surgery, chemo, radiation - synergistically with natural treatments (nutrition, supplements) to increase the power of conventional therapies and reduce toxicity of the drugs
Contain: diet, nutritional therapy and other integrative therapies to keep tumor growth as flat as possible as long as possible. This approach will help also patients whose cancers have resisted conventional treatment and contain cancer enough that the patient can live with it as a chronic illness for many years.
Remission maintenance: Rogue, resistant cells often remain in the body - therefore you need an aggressive long-term program that fights regrowth of any leftover cells. How many conventional oncologists will give you recommendations on how to keep the cancer from coming back? At this point for most of them you are done and sent away to enjoy your life and keep an eye on it -- until it's back.

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Yes, I take 8 grams (divided at different times a day) with bioperine ( what's in black pepper) every day. I also buy fresh tumeric and get the curcumin that way as well. I have been told that curcumin is not absorbed well without the piperine (bioperine).

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Thank you all for the answers. At present doctors are just monitoring mom's condition by measuring the level of her CA 125. It started rising few months ago and I am afrraid it might be recurrence. She is not on chemo now, and sinse she is not having any supplements I am searching for good once for her immune system. I read a lot about curcumin, and the particular article about circimin and MGN 3/biobran I ment was:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21275460
I was wondering if she can combine both since curcumine might not be well absorbed in blood. On the other hand, I found no data about the effect of Boiobran on OC patrients , so if anyone took that supplement, please, share what is your opinion.

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I use curcumin, along with many other supplements. Two onc's have told me I may be wasting my $$, but when there is nothing else...I'll hold onto any hope I can.

Take it--it can't hurt.

HUGS

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