Using Closed-End Pouches instead of Drainable Pouches

• By RLH58
• Reply 3408423
• September 26, 2012 at 3:28 pm
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How in the world do you afford that many pouches. That's 180 pouches a month. My insurance only pays for 30 a month.

• By Cookielin
• Reply 3408436
• September 26, 2012 at 3:35 pm
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You must be paying for this many bags from out of pocket. Great if you can do that..

• By JohnRoy
• Reply 3408920
• September 26, 2012 at 6:56 pm
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I have Florida Blue (formerly Blue Cross Blue Shield of Florida) Medicare Advantage Plan. I simply got a prescription from my physician outlining the quantity I needed ( my doctor actually wrote the scrip for 270 per month) and gave the scrip to my supplies provider and they ship the pouches every month. I don't pay any additional insurance premium for the Florida Blue Medicare Advantage Plan and they pay 80% and I pay the additional 20%. It costs me about $75 per month for all these pouches which I am more than willing to pay as opposed to using drainable pouches. I think traditional Medicare will pay for more than 60 pouches per month if you can show that it is "medically necessary". Ask you healthcare provider and see what they say.

• By ET-Anita
• Reply 3409172
• September 26, 2012 at 8:39 pm
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interesting ... but if you have a colostomy why are you emptying so much? most colostomates use 1 or 2 closed end pouches per day ....
FYI - In Europe - everyone uses closed end pouches no matter colostomy or ileostomy.
P.S. Hope you consider using Welland Freestyle Flushable Pouches - they are much greener for the world...

• By JohnRoy
• Reply 3409235 · In reply to 3409172 by ET-Anita
• September 26, 2012 at 9:10 pm
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I have a transverse colostomy so I have more frequent output. While I often hear that drainable pouches are more commonly recommended for my situation, that just makes no sense to me. Why would I want to wait until the pouch is one-half to two-thirds filled and then sit on a toilet and drain to stool out when I can change out the closed-end pouch whenever there is any output in about 10 seconds. Seriously, I don't understand why anyone with a colostomy (as opposed to an ileostomy) would use drainable pouches instead of closed-end pouches. I think many insurance companies will pay for many more pouches than what most patients are aware of.

• By JohnRoy
• Reply 3409254
• September 26, 2012 at 9:17 pm
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We should all be like Europe and use closed end pouches. Our quality of life would be so much better. I don't understand our culture here in the U.S. It seems that the manufacturers and ET nurses just don't inform patients on the benefits of closed-end pouches.

The flushable pouch is interesting and I looked into it one time. I think it was only available in Europe at that time. Good idea for those patients that can get by with only one or two pouches changes per day.

• By msmikkle
• Reply 3409268
• September 26, 2012 at 9:24 pm
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Hi JohnRoy!
I too have a transverse colostomy and use drainable bags. My insurance pays for 20 bags a month and that is more than enough for me. Right after surgery I tried using the closed end pouches. I loved not having to mess with the poo but my skin got so irritated from removing the pouch and putting a new one on everyday. That is why I switched to the drainable bags. I also can empty my bag and clean the opening in about 10 seconds.
I guess it's just what works for you. You're very fortunate to be able to use and change that many bags in a day with no skin issues.
Take care!
Monica

• By HappyS (Inactive)
• Reply 3409755
• September 27, 2012 at 4:25 am
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In the UK most people use drainable bags. No idea what happens in Continental Europe but I find it difficult to believe that there are no drainables available considering the fact that Braun is German and Coloplast is Danish and they certainly advertise them.

I'm an ileostomate so could not use a closed bag but the idea of sending un-empteid bags to the Landfill would not be one I could personally feel comfortable about.

• By Marjorie-Ann
• Reply 3409911
• September 27, 2012 at 7:41 am
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I use a closed bag, but for a few days. I clean everything as I am Mrs. Clean, and have no difficulty recycling because whatever I leave is perfectly clean! I am in Italy where I have gotten all that I need and more. Whatever the landfill gets from me has been sanitized! I am surprised at the shape of the bags that Coloplast gives here as I am in the USA half of the year. The service is excellent as is the medical service. Everyone knows whatever is the latest new appliance. I am a colostomate and have not found any difficulties here. In fact, the Ostomate nurses here are much better than what I found in St. Petersburg, Florida. We Americans think we have the best of everything, but that is not always true.

• By jazjjmado4
• Reply 3410069
• September 27, 2012 at 8:41 am
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I suggest instead of throwing bags using the liners and just flush them I use 2 liners a day generally and I can use the bag for numerous days I love the liners as they are little to no mess and don't have to find a place to dispose of them in public also been using the Black bags that where suggested last week love them also for the one - two disposables that I need to get rid off no smell gets past them I even have one in the purse JIC

• By JohnRoy
• Reply 3410238 · In reply to 3409268 by msmikkle
• September 27, 2012 at 9:30 am
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Hey Msmikkle,

Sounds like we have a similar condition with a transverse colostomy. I think maybe you are using one-piece appliances - at least when you tried the closed-end pouches. To use multiple close-end pouches per day, you would have to have a two-piece appliance so that you would only change the wafer every 3-5 days and then change out the pouches as many times as needed. I guess the whole point is avoiding what you said about "not having to mess with the poo". While I respect some of the comments about landfill concerns, I can tell you that for me - cleaning and sanitizing used ostomy pouches is not going to happen.

From what I hear, in Europe, people with colostomies prefer using closed-end pouches over drainable ones. Obviously, drainable pouches are available there since Coloplast pioneered the whole ostomy industry. For whatever reason, in the US, most patients haven't caught on to the quality of life benefits of closed-end pouches. I wouldn't be able to do half the things I do in my daily life if I had to walk around with a partially full bag of stool looking for a toilet to empty my pouch out every few hours. I guess I respectfully disagree with Margarie-Ann, I don't believe everyone knows about what is the latest new appliance.

• By KSH1010
• Reply 3410602
• September 27, 2012 at 11:32 am
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JohnRoy: What do you do with the closed pouches you keep taking off during the day? Do you empty out the contents in the toilet or what?

I have an ileostomy and previously had a colostomy. I, personally, never liked when I tried closed pouches. I don't like to have any stool sitting in my pouch for too long either, but it takes me seconds to empty and go on with my day. I am extremely clean and particular when it comes to my ostomy hygiene. I guess if I was only going once a day, it might make sense for me but I go mult. times/day (some days more than others). I guess I'm not totally understanding what you do with the stool when you take the bag off the flange? It seems messier to me to try and empty a closed pouch than a drainable one.

Of course, we all have our own routines and what works for one may not be what's best for others.

• By MsJearl
• Reply 3410861
• September 27, 2012 at 12:56 pm
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I have a permanent ileostomy for 42 years as result of rare form of cancer at age 3 years old. I have used and tried several products over the years. But I use two piece closed in pouch with filter(helps with gas) by Convetec.. But I have been using this sytem for many many years...I change the pouch about 3-4 times a day depending on what I eat. The wafer stays on for about 5 days and that's with showering. When I change the pouch, I just use a zip lock sanwich bag to dispose of it. I carry my ostomy bag with me everywhere I go. It has my supplies, pouches, deordorizers, etc... And boy have I learned the ins and outs, but especially from these forums I am finding a lot of information as well. Glad I joined...

• By coonchaa
• Reply 3410892
• September 27, 2012 at 1:04 pm
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Hi jhonroy , I also use close bags , but I l also use the liners they you can disposed them in the toilet, best invent ever. Try them.
Colo-magic.

• By JohnRoy
• Reply 3411030 · In reply to 3410602 by KSH1010
• September 27, 2012 at 1:41 pm
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KSH1010,

Similar to the response from MsJearl above, I simply put the used closed-end pouch containing the stool in a quart-sized zipper-style baggie and dispose of it in the trash. In this way, I can change the pouch out in a matter of seconds in any private setting without the need for a bathroom/toilet. I definitely don't empty the contents in a toilet as that would defeat the benefits of using a closed-end pouch. It sounds like you have an ileostomy and I had a temporary ileostomy for eight months so I know that using a drainable pouch may be the best solution for that condition due to the consistency of the stool.

The only problem (and it is a problem) is that these baggies containing the used closed-end pouches with stool in them tend to have an odor since the baggies are not odor-proof. But I believe the life-style advantages of closed-end pouches are much greater even with the odor problem of getting rid of these baggies in the trash.

I've tried the ColoMajic flushable liners and while they are a good idea, the problem with them is that you cannot get an odor-proof seal between the wafer and the pouch coupling because the plastic liner bunches up in places allowing gas odor to leak out. I know that putting pinholes in the ColoMajic liner is supposed to let the gas vent through to the pouch filter but that brings us to the pouch filter. While the filters are working a little better over the years, let's face it, they don't work real well. I just cannot have any odor coming from my appliance except during those 10 seconds it takes me to change the closed-end pouch.

• By KSH1010
• Reply 3411086
• September 27, 2012 at 1:58 pm
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I am a big fan of M9 liquid drops that I always put in my pouch. There is no odor at all when I use this so I have a little sqeeze bottle that fits in my purse and is always with me. I know others on this site swear by Na'Scent. I haven't used it.

Yes, I have a permanent ileostomy, so it's mine for life :)

I would be worried about putting the bag in a ziplock bag and throwing it away at someone's house I knew. Wouldn't want anyone to find it or smell it! Maybe there is a trick you use? Wouldn't care at home or some public restroom.

I have tried many bags with filters but they don't seem to work for me after a day or so. When I'm asleep and laying down, they get clogged with stool and then don't work.

• By Marjorie-Ann
• Reply 3411166 · In reply to 3410069 by jazjjmado4
• September 27, 2012 at 2:20 pm
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Where do you get liners? I never heard of them. Love all of this information!

• By coonchaa
• Reply 3411628
• September 27, 2012 at 5:07 pm
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the coló-Majic liners you can get them 1 866 611 6028 . Its in Canada.

• By JohnRoy
• Reply 3412142 · In reply to 3411086 by KSH1010
• September 27, 2012 at 8:49 pm
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KSH1010,

When using the M9 liquid drops in your pouch, are you saying there is no odor when wearing your pouch or are you saying there is no odor when you open the pouch to empty it in the toilet?

• By KSH1010
• Reply 3412243
• September 27, 2012 at 9:29 pm
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JohnRoy: M9 drops: There is no odor wearing my pouch or when I empty.

I use Convatec Natura 2 pc system and I rarely have any odor when I'm just wearing my pouch. If I do, it means it's time to change the flange. I usually get 4-5 days + out of a flange.