Swine flu

I posted this question on the CTF BB as well but am hoping to get some responses about what people are thinking about the H1N1 vaccine. The reason I ask is that I'm not sure what to do. We've had swine flu cases here since last spring but judging by all the media hype the push will soon be on to get the vaccine. I'm not anti vaccine by any means but I do have concerns, especially where DD is concerned. I've been reading about some of the ingredients that are commonly used in these things. I tried to find out exactly what will be in this vaccine and the local health department didn't seem to know. Apparently the vaccine we are getting here in Canada is the same as they are using in Europe but not the same as the one being used in the U.S. According to what I've read, the vaccines at least in some countries, will contain thermisol (mercury). The single dose shots however may be thermisol free? The other ingredient that I've read some things about is squalene which seems to be fairly controversial and has gotten some attention because it has been suspected in Golf War syndrome cases and other autoimmune disorders.

To be honest, I'm very much leaning towards leaving well enough alone and not getting the shot. Just last night the Chief Doctor from the WHO released a statement saying that the virus does not appear to have mutated and is not any more deadly than it was before. On the other hand I keep envisioning this scene where one of the kids gets really sick and I have to explain to some snooty resident why we didn't get the shot. (Of course, this would be at the local sick kids hospital where only 50% of the employees get a regular flu shot.)

Arghhh.....

Cindy

By catmom08
Posted September 22, 2009 at 12:58 pm
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well i take it u dont have a regular doctor u can have an honest discussion with?
i am not sure what to say casue my kids are furballs.
i hope u can make an infomred decision though it sounds like u are trying to be informed. good luck

By rivergrl21
Posted September 23, 2009 at 1:28 pm
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Cindy, this has been a huge controversy for us also. We decided not to give Daniel any vaccines until he is 2 yr of age and then only on a strict schedule. This is because our oldest son has autism which I am convinced has something to do with his vaccines (after a lot of research on what he received). Now with this H1N1 vaccine, I personally don't like or trust the flu vaccines here in the US because they do contain mercury based products and nobody will come out and say there is enough research on them especially this new one that they are 100% safe and effective for everyone. I am sure healthy children and adults would be fine just not everyone. My daughter 7 yrs old just came down with the H1N1 flu 2 weeks ago from school. Keep in mind that I am also 8 1/2 months pregnant and Daniel is in a high risk group due to his neurological problems. So, talk about stressful. I ended up sending her to my mothers house (about 15 min away). It was really hard to do and she was REALLY sick but we could not take the chances here at home. I understand that the CDC has said they expect it to make its rounds after October just as any flu would. In fact they didn't even want a blood test proving my daughter diagnosis but told the ped to diagnose her on symptoms alone of which she had every one of them. They didn't even treat her with anything other than breathing medicine in her nebulizer to keep the respiratory problems at bay. So, we have not even had the vaccine released yet and it is already hitting schools around here. I would rather do what I can to protect myself and my children then to give them (the little ones) or myself (pregnant) a dose of something that can be potentially harmful. (these are just my personal thoughts and not to create any type of argument on the safeness of vaccines)

Dana

By TobiasLee-KS
Posted September 23, 2009 at 2:33 pm
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I am not going to take it. I am not going to go to my Dr. until May. She is a wonderful Dr. but I feel that she will talk me into taking it. I have never had the flu before. I took a shot last year for the first time...but no more. Plus I am not around that many people...I am the kind of person that like to be by myself most of the time.

By MysticMIkel
Posted September 23, 2009 at 2:56 pm
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Cindy,

We both have similar information.

I just saw my primary care doctor today. All I received was the regular flu vaccination. His office is unsure how H1N1 will come into play.

The office also doesn't have enough information about it either with the exception of what W H O has said, plus the few patients who have come in with H1N1 have a milder case of flu when compared to regular flu.

By CindyLouWho
Posted September 24, 2009 at 8:52 am
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Thanks for the responses.

Dana, It sounds like you are making the most informed decisions you can. I am not totally anti vaccine and it doesn't sound like you are either. However, years ago my children had the chicken pox vaccine. I now regret it because some science has shown that the chicken pox virus may actually offer some protection against brain tumors. Now I sort of weigh the risks against the benefits and hope I'm making the right choices. Last year my older daughter was in grade 7 and after much research and soul searching we opted out of the gardasil and hep b shots. She was actually questioned by teachers as to why and her big concern this year was that H1N1 would be offered in the schools and she would be the only one not doing it. To my mind the hep B is unnecessary and until we know more about the gardasil I will wait. I do believe that with the meningitis shots the benefits outweigh the risks so that is one that I feel okay about having done.

Anyway, some of you will no doubt find this very interesting. A new development is being reported here....an unpublished Canadian study has found that those who received the seasonal flu shot last year are more likely to get H1N1. Not sure if this will bare out under further study but it is intriguing. We are expecting more information later today. In my province they have changed the priority order for the shots and are considering scaling back on the regular flu shot clinics. So I guess the story will continue to unfold.

http://southwesternontario.ctv.ca/news.php?id=5790

http://www.cjob.com/News/Local/Story.aspx?ID=1143284

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090923/seasonal_flu_0 90923/20090923?hub=Health

Cindy

By jullie
Posted September 24, 2009 at 9:05 am
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I personally have not decided whether or not I will get this vaccine. I do get the flu vaccine and have never had nay complications from it. I am not convinced that this vaccine will be any more beneficial than the original flu vaccine. A money hype, I don't know. They get so much from our insurance premiums here in the states it should cover the shot and then some. Then again if they are lucky enough to put everyone into the "panic" mode they will reap pretty good financially if that is their goal. I do know that my daughter who is now an adult, when she was little and suffered from asthma it did indeed make a huge difference in her asthma if she had the flu shot. Everyone is affected by things differently. It is mixed amongst those I know choosing or not choosing to get it. God Bless.

By rivergrl21
Posted September 24, 2009 at 2:39 pm
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Thank you Cindy, I always appreciate your post because of the informative nature of them. You have so much information to share that it is helpful to all of us. I think being in Canacda you have more info or sometimes different info then is being shared with us in the states. This whole H1N1 virus and vaccine is definatly soemthing to be researched. Please contine to post if you find out more info. They are planning to being vaccinating high risk groups as of Oct 1st in the states which is soon. I found it VERY interesting they recommended 2 shot a few weeks apart for children. Here in the states they only give one dose. I wonder if it is even effective or if they give a double dose? Hmmmm. Just a thought that popped up.

Dana

By imamann
Posted September 24, 2009 at 3:27 pm
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We will get Abigail vaccinated because she has gotten EVERYTHING that she has been exposed to so far, and I don't want her to have to be hospitalized...however we just opted out of chicken pox until we could do more research...so Cindy I am wondering if you could give me any sights on the chicken pox virus and brain tumors. Our doctor was kind about it, but she wanted to research what the actual virus could do in patients with nf1. I am researching some on the web, but if you have more information I would love to hear it.

By CindyLouWho
Posted September 24, 2009 at 3:49 pm
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imamann,

FY1, There is no research about NF brain tumors and chicken pox that I am aware of. However, an association between a history of chickenpox or shingles and having immunglobulin G antibodies for varicella-zoster have been correlated with a lower risk for non NF glioma in adults. Research is underway to find out why that association might exist.

http://www.whale.to/m/chick.html

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/145/7/594

Cindy

By patricksmom
Posted September 25, 2009 at 7:51 am
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Hi Cindy,

I also am thinking of not giving my kids the h1n1 flu shot. I feel they haven't done enough research on it and I don't want my kids to be the guinea pigs for it. My peds Dr. wants Patrick it to have it because of his history with bronchitus, wheezing, and pneumonia.(he also is my child with NF1)Until there is more research I feel the risks outweigh the benefits. Cindy thank you for posting this I can never log on to the other bb.

Amy

By MIRACLESOCCUR
Posted September 25, 2009 at 9:56 am
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Cindy,
This is Patti from the NFBB......great sight...Not!!!!

We have decided there is not enough info. on the shot itself and how children will react to it. Cleveland recommended Sarah not get it. Her Neuro. and Neuro. Onc. are not getting it. If they are not...that gives me a clue they do not have faith in it either. In fact Dr. Cohen came right out and said " I would not get the shot if they paid me".

That is our insight. Beef up the immune system and take all precautions, even pulling her out of school, if the school gets hit.

Patti

By KayCe234
Posted September 25, 2009 at 10:11 am
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I'm definately pro-vaccine, BUT my thinking is this -
Cars and Medicine, never get either in their first year. My pediatrician feels the same way and won't even be stocking the H1N1 vaccine. We did the regular old flu shot this year.

By imamann
Posted September 25, 2009 at 6:17 pm
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thank you Cindy...I am okay if there's no research on nf with it yet...still something new to give to my doctor. she is really great at listening and taking into consideration what we have learned as well...and doing more research on it. This is very helpful. You always are. :)

By guilty_spork
Posted September 25, 2009 at 8:08 pm
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Vaccines are WAY overused. From an evoloutionary standpoint we are simply forcing the hand of nature and creating STRONGER viruses. People sit around scratching thier heads about the virulent new strains of disease we have nowadays... There you go. We are digging our graves on this one. Magic medicines thin the heard and allow only superior strains of pathogens to reproduce. Every time we come up with a new cure, nature evolves a new strain. Like the hydra, the heads keep growing back, stronger and harder to cut off... two at a time. Im not against medicine, vacines or antibiotics. But judicious use of them should be applied. Sooner or later a REAL superbug will emerge and nothing we have will work. The day is coming. Its not a matter of "if", but "when". The more we push ahead, blindly culling away the weak strains of comunicable diseases, the sooner that end will come. Maybe it's time to take a step back and really consider the whole picture. I can deal with being sick.. Even REALY sick for a week or so, without taking an antibiotic. I dealt with chickenpox without a vaccine. My body adapted and now I'm stronger and beter suited against disease. Thats what our immune system does. When our immune sytem doesnt get the chance to build immunity against weaker strains of pathogens we are making ourselves vulnerable. Combine that with the unnatural selection of the stronger strains through medicine.. and we have a double whammy. We think of vaccines and antibiotics as trivial, almost unimportant drugs. Never in the course of civilation have we had the power to manipulate evoloution in the way we are now. Prometheus paid a heavy price as will we all, I fear.

By CindyLouWho
Posted September 28, 2009 at 8:55 am
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JPC, Are you coming over to my house to wipe the coffee off my keyboard?! I soooo did not see that one coming! LOL

Thanks to everyone for the responses. Its nice to see I'm not the only one thinking as I am and also to see the other side. I figure no matter what choice we make at least we've done it conscientiously. BTW I love the car analogy, I think I may have to steal that one!

Spork, Have you read "Survival of the Sickest" by Dr. Sharon Moalem? It is an excellent book and I think it would be right up your alley. This review makes it sound a bit hokey but it isn't....I found it was a great little read.

http://www.survivalofthesickestthebook.com/thebook.php

Stay well all.

Cindy

By trinadw
Posted September 28, 2009 at 12:56 pm
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my husband works for the health department and he told me that he will not take it. He said years ago they had a swine flu vaccine that caused paralysis. He wants to wait and see what happens. He also said people with poor dental hygiene is more susceptible. WASH YOUR HANDS PEOPLE! ;))

By Hope2BMD
Posted September 30, 2009 at 9:48 am
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I'm having a hard time with this one myself. There is NO information out there for the Canadian vaccine. And it must be different, Cindy, from the link you provided for the American one as that information leaflet states for children over the age of 4 but they're immunizing 6mo-5 year olds as a priority group here.

Emerson has multiple allergies many of which are not yet identified. BUT he also has asthma, and a tendancy to scary croup. All things considered, though, I think it's best for him not to receive it. Unless I can find more information about the other ingredients in it I'll be refusing it for him. I've asked our Public Health Nurse, our doctor, friends of mine who are doctors, none of them know. Many of my friends in the medical field will not be taking it, though.

I know Teaghan, his older sister, won't be receiving it as she has an egg allergy -which she seems to have outgrown but I'm not ready to inject egg proteins directly into her bloodstream.

So that leaves Harrison, our oldest, in Kindergarten this year. We've considered immunizing him as he's the one who will probably be exposed to the virus the most at school. Parents at his school are horrible at keeping their kids home when they're sick. Plus it's a very small school and all the grades interract with each other - great for social development but makes it harder to decide to keep your child home if classmates are sick. I don't think I'm ready to make him the family's scapegoat and give him an immunization I don't feel is safe for the other two.

I just wish people would stay home and keep their kids home when they're sick. And I wish employers would understand the need to do this.

By CindyLouWho
Posted October 27, 2009 at 8:45 am
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Just popping in to say that I'm still mulling this over but possibly leaning the other way now. Mass vaccinations started in my area yesterday and they couldn't service everyone....lots of vaccine here, just too many lining up to get it. A 10 year old, not far from me, died on the weekend. She was totally healthy but had been battling the flu for a few weeks. Then this morning they are reporting that another apparently healthy child passed away in my Province. He was apparently playing at a hockey game when he complained of sore throat and then he collapsed a few hours later. It was very fast. Haven't heard of a lot of healthy kids dying anywhere else....up until this point it was always people with existing health issues, pregnant women etc. Scary stuff.

Cindy

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