Weight lifting-How many sets?/ How much weight?

After my diagnosis with osteoporosis. I started weight lifting. I was not very strong when I started but have been working on it and advancing slowly--to be careful. I have two questions:

How many sets to do? I have always done 3 sets and do ea. set to exhaustion, with a weight that will cause fatigue between 12-15 reps. This I thought was the standard approach. I recently saw at the Mayo Fitness site, that a dr. is saying that research has shown 1 set to be as effective as 3 for developing muscular strength. He also said if you are a weightlifter, you may still find benefit in several sets ( or something to that effect).Sure I would like to just do 1 set if the other sets are basically wasted...but that doesn't quite make sense to me that 1 set equals 3.

How much weight? I have now worked up to 10# weights. I don't feel like such a weakling anymore, but I really don't have much muscle definition yet. I wonder how much weight that takes for a postmeno. woman. In another month or so I expect to move up to next weight level.My dr. said it would be fine to stay at 10# weights but then I am not challenging my muscles if I stay there. Then she said just take it only to 15 # weights.

My t-scores are spine -3.1 and hips -1.7 and-1.9.
Any thoughts about # of sets, or weight lifted?

By beachkat
Posted November 1, 2009 at 11:31 pm
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Blue sky I was diagnosed a yr ago with osteoporosis and read that some doctors did studies on weight training and found that using a 4 pound weight vest for an hr a day a few days a week over much time reversed and re built bone .
they said the vest is best as it evenly distributes weight on the torso to strengthen back etc and thus strengthen muscles also will strengthen bones.
I got that NYKNYC vest that was featured in Prevention mag with studies that said using the NYK vest can help strengthen bones and it is a nice easy way to do it cause you can wear it out walking as it looks like clothing , it is sleek . I feel stronger after a few month of using that vest I am stronger and pain in spine is greatly reduced ! dumbbells only work out your arms the vest targets the problem areas

By PattyBoyd27
Posted November 1, 2009 at 11:43 pm
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Hi Beachkat, I read that you had gotten that cute looking weight vest for women, did you say it was by
I lost the exact web address.
I got one a yr ago and love it but I lost the address .
I was going to to get one for my friend who is diagnosed with osteopenia , do you have the exact address to order ?
thanks again

By beachkat
Posted November 1, 2009 at 11:54 pm
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Hi BeachK I got my vest at WWW.NYKNYC.COM
they specialize in women's fitness vests .
I agree though I feel that wearing the vest is targeting my entire back and body making it strong
and it is very comfortable plus much more effective than doing weight lifting with barbells. with a vest you can wear it several hrs a day anyplace I wear it doing housework etc also can carry up to 9 lbs and get a solid workout.
Plus I take tons of yogurtwhich is very high in cal.

By Mrs_Thistlebottom
Posted November 2, 2009 at 10:51 am
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Hi, Bluesky -- I'm not an exercise physiologist, but I do weight training, and it sounds like the approach you're using now is working for you. You've grown stronger and have been able to gradually increase your weights. Even if the second and third sets are "wasted," you're still getting cardiovascular and other benefits from the additional sets.

I'd definitely take my doc's advice and limit to 15# weights, but when you reach the point where 15# is no longer challenging, I wonder if you could increase the weight load safely by adding a weighted vest, as mentioned above. Or maybe vary your routine. Perhaps one of the experts here will be able to give you some pointers.

Visible muscle definition comes from only one thing: decreased body fat. I know--not an easy thing to do when one is postmenopausal, but I'm convinced it can be done. I'm still working on it. ;-)

Beachkat -- You seem to know a lot about the NYKNYC vest and have mentioned it often here. I'm just curious: Do you work for the company?

By lilrayosun
Posted November 2, 2009 at 11:10 am
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Beachkat, you are obsessed with a weight vest. We're going to have to stage a weight vest intervention for you!

To answer your questions Bluesky (as best I can):

One set vs. three sets. I looked around and found this study. Now at first, it seems your doctor is right, and I got all excited thinking: "Wee! That cuts half an hour off my workout time!" But if you read to the very, very very bottom of the article, they say that fatigue also plays a huge part in muscle development (ergo, bone development, since bone responds to the muscle tugging on it), so the bottom line is that three sets are more effective than one. Rats.

Here's the link: http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/strength-training-weight-lifting-strategy-1 05

As for the 10 pound going to 15 pounds: I don't know. Sometimes five more pounds can be a lot of weight. If you were doing say squats or things with large muscle groups, then I'd say yeah, go ahead, they can probably take it.

But if you're using those 10 pounds for your arms or to lift overhead -- you'd be surprised how much heavier 5 more pounds is. I know I wasn't able to go from 10 to 15 for a bicep curl. I had to use a 12 in between.

Do you belong to a gym? They probably have smaller increments than 10 and 15. Sometimes (if you're using a machine that has the plates you put the pin into), there's a small plate laying on the floor around the machine. That plate usually weight 2 to 2-1/2 pounds. You place it on top of the weight deck --- it doesn't fall off.

If you don't belong to a gym, why not head to a sporting goods store and just pick up a 15 pound weight to see what it feels like? That way you don't buy something you can't use. Or take a tour of a gym (pretend you want to join, but don't) and pick up one of their 15 pound weights and try it out.

By the way -- if you can lift the 15 pounds and keep form, but not for 10-12 reps, it's fine to lower your reps to 3-4 each. That's what they did in the BEST study. http://www.aquacert.org/CEC2-2008.pdf

Re: muscle definition. Doesn't happen so easily for us because we don't have enough testosterone. Also, if we've got extra "padding" on top of the muscle, it's hard to see. But keep going. You may have Linda Hamilton-Terminator arms in no time.

By the way, yay for you for doing the weight lifting and in such a cautious, sensible, measured way! That is definitely the key to success! Studies have shown weight vests are fine for some things, but they will not increase bone density in your arms or spine, so keep on doing what you're doing.

Best,
Raye

By lilrayosun
Posted November 2, 2009 at 11:41 am
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I should add, I am not any kind of fitness professional, I'm just someone who exercises a lot. I'm repeating what I've read/learned over the years. But if I'm wrong, one of you official-I-do-this-for-a-living-people jump in and correct me.

By bluesky
Posted November 2, 2009 at 1:34 pm
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Raye- That was a super good article that you found. Thank you. What did you search on? I was trying to find something like that.

Yes, I too had that initial feeling of elation that I could just change to the one set.....but, I think after reading the article that I will stick with 3 sets.

I am not going to go from 10 # weights to 15# directly. Our local fitness store has an 11.5# weight so I can ease up quite gradually. From there I will just continue up slowly.

I am somewhat thin so I don't really have fat to lose, just want to firm up what I do have and have that being muscle that pulls on the bone, thus strengthening bone.

Mrs. Thistlebottom-thanks for you comments too .

Bluesky

ps- I have a vest already. Any questions on the vest I will put on another thread. Just wanted to discuss sets and weight lifted here.

By lilrayosun
Posted November 2, 2009 at 2:38 pm
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For the one vs. three, I just searched "one set versus three sets weight lifting."

For the Best study, I found that a while back. I think I googled studies on weight lifting and reversing osteoporosis.

Yeah, I don't have any padding either (and I can't see muscle definition). If I lift weights in a tank top, I can see my muscles while I'm working out. But the minute the weight isn't in my hands, the muscles fade into a sea of freckles.

By bluesky
Posted November 2, 2009 at 3:33 pm
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Raye--How long have you been weight lifting? And, what weight are you lifting now? Do you do machines as well as free weights?
I have looked at the BEST program as well. I do not go to a gym and have no access to the machines . I have cobbled together my own program taking from the Best the non-machine exercises and also the exercises from Dr. Miriam Nelson's Strong Women , Strong Bones and Strong Women, Strong Backs. I then had a phys ther. look the program over to confirm that I wasn't doing anything that was problematic. So far so good.
Mostly I do not have a problem with motivation, but it would help to periodically check in with others who are trying to make bone improvement through exercise. I know there is an exercise section here, but it doesn't seem very active.
Bluesky

By lilrayosun
Posted November 2, 2009 at 11:50 pm
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Since around 1994. But I've always (until now) been sporadic at best. I find weight lifting so mind numbingly boring. (I've always been more of a runner.) One thing that's helped is switching to a 3-4 rep max. Takes less time, it's more challenging, and I don't have to count as high. I hate counting.

I hesitate to talk weight amounts because sometimes people just read the number and think "Oh, I'm going to try that," rather than realizing that it took me a long, gradual time to work up to that. (I don't mean you, and maybe no one would, but I worry about it.) Friend me, and I'll send you a note with all the details.

I work out at home with a mix of dumbbells and resistance bands and my own body weight. The trip to the gym was one more excuse not to exercise. Plus, it's so expensive in NYC.

Did you see Woody's response to your question? Great information! I'm wondering if the whole lack of protein thing is my problem. Hm...

Best,
Raye

By soprano
Posted November 3, 2009 at 10:13 am
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Dear Raye,

Thanks for posting that pdf from the BEST study! It was great.

I read it and noticed the following (which I repeat, copied), below. The main thing to notice is that this recommendation is *very* different from what we are typically told to do. Instead of low or moderate weights, with 10-12 reps (or more), the objective is to alternate hard/moderate, with hard being 4-6 reps at 80% of the 1-rep max, and moderate being 6-8 reps at 70% of the 1-rep max. What this means is probably *much* higher weights than you have normally ever used.

To find out what your 1-rep max is can be tricky, since lifting very heavy weights could cause injury. One way to do this is to figure out what weight makes you give up at 6 reps. That would likely be your 80% of your 1-rep max. So perhaps you can try to gradually increase the weights you can lift until 6 reps is just too much.

Also notice that the BEST program has very specific exercises that it recommends in order to build bone. Not many exercises, though, so it's not that difficult.

Reading their pdf is a good idea, and going to their website and looking at the videos of women doing the weights is also good. These women are lifting heavy weights, and doing it in great form. And they aren't young athletes, either.

The rest is copied from the pdf that Raye pointed us to.

**************

THE “BEST” Program
The weight lifting exercises uses were the Military press, seated leg press, lat-pull down, seated row, back extension, rotary torso, and weight march. The goal was to increase weighloads by 20% every 2 months for a year.

The workout consisted of a 3-5 min cardio warm-up, strength training 20 min. cardio weight bearing 15 min, small muscle exercises 5 min. and a cooldown 2-5 min. The orginal workout was 1.5 hours, but 45 min routines have been show to be as effective. There must be at least 2 sets of each of the exercises. The workout should be done 3 times per week on non-consecutive day. The aerobic exercise should be done at 60-80%
of estimated maximal heart rate. 2 sets of 4 repetitions for each exercise. The load should be 70-80% of the 1 rep max. If a client can perform more reps in good form than the desired number of reps the weight needs to be increased. The small muscle group exercises can be performed at home. Alternate moderate/hard/moderate for the days during the week. Moderate days are 6-8 reps at 70% of 1 rep max, and heavy days 4-6 reps at 80% of 1 rep max. (Exception is the military press which is done at a 4 rep max on heavy days). A 45-60 sec rest interval is used between sets since this is a high load lifting protocol.

By lilrayosun
Posted November 3, 2009 at 11:31 am
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Yeah, my favorite quote from that study was that the biggest limitation to BMD improvemet was the women's fears about what they were capable of. I'm paraphrasing but something like that.

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