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Too much Acidity of the body being one of the problems?

LindaSS
1 Recommendation

I've seen other posts in this site about acidity being possibly one of the contributors to osteoporisis. I'm new, I'm trying to get as much info from experienced people here as I can. I read the following on a very interesting site on acidity being something to consider in osteoporosis. I have no idea how true this is or not, but, here's what I read at this site: http://www.dherbs.com/articles/osteoporosis-bones-405.html

"osteoporosis is technically not a calcium deficiency disorder. It is not lack of calcium that causes the disorder or disease, but ACIDOSIS that causes the problem.

When there is osteoporosis, the body is too acidic, especially the kidneys. Excessive acid in the kidneys could shut the kidneys down (kidney failure) resulting in death. To prevent this from occurring, the Body Intelligence steals calcium from the bones and sends it to the kidneys to give them some base so as to neutralize the acid in the kidneys. Taking calcium from the bones reduces bone density resulting in osteoporosis.

Remember, calcium is the number one alkaline mineral (meaning it is the most alkaline of the minerals, the eight alkaline minerals, that is)."

The information continues in detail and lists alkaline vs acid foods. I figure it can't hurt me to try eating more alkaline foods as it may have an overall benefit.
As much as there may be wisdom in this site, there's a lot more to why some people have osteoporosis, so, I'm not saying that this is THE REASON (acidity), I'm just saying that it could be a contributor and maybe eating alkaline foods could help. Has nnyone had benefit from eating alkaline foods or have knowledge on this subject?

Explore topics in this discussion:

Exercise Cancer Irritable bowel syndrome Chronic pain Melanoma Nexium Allergies Skin cancer Pain Depression Osteoporosis Dieting Cortisol Stress

31 replies

SequoiaHealth

Hi LindaSS:
If you search acidity on the site you will find lots of information on the subject. But it is not the only lifestyle factor that must be addressed. I sent you a list of 5 before. All are equally important.

Woody

LindaSS

Couldn't agree with you more Woody! And I've reposted what you said to KathllenAlford so people will understand what we're talking about (at the end of my post).

For the moment (as I can only do one thing at a time to see what's working or not) I'm focusing in on acidity/alkalinity for one variable in the osteo equation to test out what it does or doesn't do in my body. Here's what I found as of this morning. 3 days or so ago I read Woody's commentary (below). I then read http://www.health-reports.com/Osteoporosis.html "When your diet contains too many acid foods like grains, pasta, bread, meat, soft drinks, with too few fruits and vegetables, your body starts to get acidic. As the blood must be a neutral pH, your body pulls calcium from the bones to neutralize the acidity. This is often the major factor in the development of osteoporosis. " I then read the web site I mentioned above http://www.dherbs.com/articles/osteoporosis-bones-405.html that says why acidity is ONE of the root problems with osteoporosis. So, I went to this web site
http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html which told me what foods are acidic/alkaline - I found that all I primarily eat is acidic foods (all my life).

For the past 3 days I've been mostly eating alkaline. I bought a juicer and yesterday all I had was juiced organic kale, brocolli, and spinich. I then drank 2 quarts of Knudson's Veggie juice. This morning I woke up and substantially noticed I could breathe better in both my lungs and sinuses (I have had a serious lung mucus/infection problem which I won't go into here) - but, this is a HUGE, NOTICEABLE difference. Here's the kicker. My saliva/back of the throat mucus is normally extremely thick and stringy. This morning it was watery and very little of it, and NO STRINGS in the spit.

Gross, I know, but, anecdotal as it is it is an observable major difference and it happened in a brief amount of time. Make of it what anyone will, but, I think I'm going to pay attention to Woody's big 5 and WHY the big 5 work is what I'm prying into detail on. Duh, the food list of alkaline will stop the acidity in the kidneys as well, which to what I'm reading is PERHAPS why calcium is being leached out of the bones (calcium is alkaline and needed to stop the acid in the kidneys - and the acid is chronically there because all I eat is acidic!). There's so much more to all this (like with me no sunshine, no D - and I don't drink enough water or do enough weight bearing, and I need my calcium I ingest to be absorbed so I need the right amounts of magnesium, K, etc along with the D to enable my body to function normally. I believe that if I do all these things my body will simply rebalance itself to NORMAL. I put it in a state of imbalance). Like Woody says, it's all 5 and I'm going to work on everyone of them (like a test rat) and let you know how I'm doing. I'm working on ALL OF IT and have posts in different discussions. Tell me what is happening in your body that you can see is working and what change you made that you attribute the positive results to. I've been suffering with chronic lung infectiona and scarring for a long time. If drinking green leafy stuff and/or veggie juice has stopped the mucus harboring the bacterial environment - WOW! So, on to reading more and experimenting. Thanks again Woody, and read what Woody has to say below - good stuff. PS, I would love a list of URLs from any of you just like I've given and what result you got from trying the info from that url and WHY you think it worked.

Here's what Woody posted in response to KathleenAlford regarding her acidity/alklinity and what got me going on the whole subject in its relevence to my osteoporosis. Thanks Woody!
• By KathleenAlford
• Posted May 26, 2009 at 3:35 am
• Report post
My doctor told me to aim for 7.38, which is the pH level that must be maintained by the blood for optimum functioning.

God bless you,
Kathy
• Reply

• By SequoiaHealth
• Posted May 26, 2009 at 6:28 am
• Report post
Hi KathleenAlford :
It is great to hear you confirm what we tell people and see in our healthy lifestyle treatment program. Many people doubt the effectiveness of a lifestyle approach but the fact is, even if you decide to use medications, your body still must be in good enough condition to support their use. I personally like to see people try lifestyle changes first before medications. I tell people all the time “A healthy body makes healthy bones.” Not the other way around.

The other area we are finding as important as diet and exercise is stress reduction. High stress levels have a strong negative effect on health in general. High circulation cortisol levels increase calcium excretion. So I will include the lifestyle list we use called “The Big 5 for Bone Health.”

1. A diet that contains 50% fruits and vegetables. Fruits and veggies contain greater amounts of water and minerals with generally lesser amounts of
animal protein.
2. Adequate water intake for maximum hydration. Water is very important in helping the kidneys regulate pH and detoxify the body.
3. Daily stress reduction activities. This helps lower cortisol and homocysteine levels reducing calcium loss.
4. Year round vitamin D3 levels in the 50-80 ng/mL (or 125-200 nM/L).
This should be confirmed by 25-hydroxyvitamin D testing.
5. Sufficient weight bearing exercise to stimulate balance and muscle growth which is essential for bone strengthening determined by regular full body strength testing.

As always, no one change will give the results you seek. The body is too complicated and finely regulated for that to happen.

Woody McMahon
NOVA Osteoporosis Support Group Leader

SusanRae

LindaSS,

Do you know why you have osteoporosis? It is not only lifestyle that causes it. Medical conditions or nutritional deficiencies can contribute to OP, as well.

I'm working on the 5 lifestyle changes listed above, too.

Take care!

LindaSS

Thanks SusanRae, I'm looking into all of it - any info anyone has is greatly appreciated and I'm reading all the posts each day. I have my Dr running tests right now. I'm very fortunate to have medical insurance. My heart goes out to those who can't afford it. I hope good health care reform gets passed so those less fortunate than myself can get the care they deserve too. Thanks again. There are so many nice people here.

sharonusa

LindaSS;
You might also look into food allergies as the reason for the mucas. The symptoms going away after eliminating a lot of your foods would possibly indicate that too.
If you go for testing be sure to get the full range tests. Some Dermatologists list themselves as allergists when all they test for is a handful of the most common.

lilrayosun

As soon as I cut out dairy, I stopped sneezing. I used to have sneezing fits several times a day. My husband says I've also stopped snoring. So now I'm more alkaline and less allergic (and noisy). That was easy.

LindaSS

Hi Sharon and Lil,
Exactly - food can be part of the problem (whatever problem it's causing whether contributing to osteo or an unrelatated issue). So, I'm paying attention to what makes any change I can note. What was astounding was the extreme change I've had when I ate all alkaline veggies alone and then stayed on strickly alkaline foods noting what I was eating. Then I had some cheese and the mucus came back. Ok, so is it an allergy to dairy or is it about acidity or.... Bottom line is I know cheese though high in calcium isn't working well with me (and I've eaten lots of it all my life). Cheese is the only dairy product I eat. I use soy milk and no problem there since I added it back into my eating (but interestingly soy is alkaline and the product I use has calcium). Anyway, I'm not going to write long - I looked at my long posts and I doubt anyone except a few stallwart people are reading them :) My eagerness to get all the answers RIGHT NOW has mellowed out to realizing this is going to be a long term research project as me as test rat. But, I am very optimistic that the answers will be found. Besides tracking what foods do what (using the premise that I have been almost exclusively acid) I'm staying on primarily alkaline foods which keep the mucus away. I'll see where it goes. I'm also tracking down how to get more Magnesium into me which is a different project I'm working on. I read some very interesting claims about that last night, but, will post later in that discussion. Thanks for the help in considering what food can do for or against us.

cynthia52

LindaSS,
I don't mind your long letters at all!!! Keep it up!!! I am learning a lot from you- I am slowly changing my diet also- I have eaten about 50% of both kinds of foods previously. I read you should keep a balance of 80% akaline and 20% acid type foods in each meal. I do know that I always feel great after having a salad and fruit for lunch- gives me energy for the rest of the day! What have you found out about magnesium and Vit. K ? Any certain foods? I am also adding yoga for osteo to my exercise routine. I have done pilates and free weights for years. I just wrote down the BIG 5 !!!
Cynthia

millie123

Don't have a link right now, but I read somewhere just yesterday that one of the best alkalizing agents out there is white grape juice. unsweetened.

1julie

I am new to this site and new to trying to attempt lifestyle changes to prevent further bone loss. I am still in the normal bone density range. I saw this post and information about acid-alkaline forming foods and investigated further to try to understand what it all means. Having spent my early adulthood going to grad school in molecular biology and working in labs doing research, I wanted to look at the research on whether acidic diets have been shown to contribute to bone density loss. As far as I can tell this area is controversial. I didn't find any data that showed eating an acidic diet creates acidic blood. I found some studies that showed dramatic bone loss occurred in people who had a blood ph slightly more acidic than the control group. This looked like a real finding. But, I could find no data indicating that eating acidic food or alkaline food is able to change the blood ph. I will keep an open mind and investigate further, but from everything I know, blood ph is a very narrowly regulated physiological process and not subject to change due to subtle variations in diet. Also, all of the lists showing which foods are acidic forming and which are alkaline ARE DIFFERENT. How does a person attempting to change body ph really know what the right foods are supposed to be? Yes, I can believe eating and all protein or excessively high protein diet has profound physiological effects,even on blood ph. But I find it very hard to believe that people who eat a healthy diet of fruits, vegetables, and whole grains with occasional fish would benefit from making sure they don't eat oatmeal with blueberries and walnuts for breakfast because it is acidic according to some charts of unknown origin. This just seems too extreme and is definitely unproven. Using moderation, eating a variety of fruits vegetables and whole grains and not eating refined foods makes is an approach that makes sense to me and has plenty of evidence from studies and public health data to back it up.

DeskJockey101

Wow what a great discussion to be happening right when I am in the middle of a certainbook - and this book also recommends a alkaline/acidic diet of 3 to 1 meaning 3 parts alkaline to 1 acidic. I am still exploring this and have an appointment tomorrow with a Dr to talk about this form of diet. The interesting thing is its not far off from what I have been doing the last 6 months. According to this book, dark green leafy vegetables are the best to eat. Now I know that might be hard for some to do especially in winter - fresh is best. Lets keep sharing eh

Alli

thanks to Woody for sharing the Big 5 that we are all trying to work on... does it mean that 50 percent of each meal should be veggies and fruit?

lottie-lorraine

If dairy is acidic, why is it pushed so much to help correct osteoporosis?

Eamenard

Dear 1Julie:

Perhaps you can tell me why I was excreting too much calcium in my urine and why a duretic cured it. Quotting from Linda's post "Duh, the food list of alkaline will stop the acidity in the kidneys as well, which to what I'm reading is PERHAPS why calcium is being leached out of the bones (calcium is alkaline and needed to stop the acid in the kidneys - and the acid is chronically there because all I eat is acidic!). "

Is there a PH meter in ones system measuring blood PH and mine is out of whack as too much calcium is being sent to the kidneys and the kidney doesn't know what to do with all this calcium as the blood PH isn't calling for it and so the kidney sends it out in the urine? When I asked my Doctor what the diuretic does he said it "seals" the kidneys stopping the calcium in the urine-which it did. So is the PH meter still broken and the symptom is fixed but the PH meter is still broken? And where does the calcium now go since it isn't going out the urine? Or does the PH meter get constantly get adjusted with the diuretic?

The reasoning behind acid/alkaline food stuff really escapes escapes me. If you think food is too acidic then just take some calcium(And most are already taking calcium). It goes into your stomach and it is right there with all of this acid food. No need to go to the bones to get calcium. It is right there. Don't concern yourself with acid/alkaline!!

verginia

Hi Lottie-Lorraine

I believe the reason Dairy is pushed (usually by Doctors) is because they don't do any research so they don't keep up to date.

We have to do our own research as ultimately we are responsible for our own health.

This is why this site is wonderful because we share information.

1julie

Dear Eamenard,
I wish I could tell you why you are excreting calcium in your urine, but I don't know much about that subject. Did your doctor tell you the reason, give you a diagnosis? From what I understand, there are several possible reasons that someone could have too much calcium in their urine, and the treatment depends on the cause. I am glad the diuretic worked for you, though. If I were you, I would have questions, too, about what is the cause of this problem and I would consider getting a second (or third) opinion to try to find the answers.
Thanks for weighing in on the acid/alkaline foods. I appreciate hearing your point of view.

Lokamaya

Susan Brown, Ph.D has an excellent bone building program. One of her requirements is that the body be at a neutral pH. Yes, acidosis is an important risk factor.

The body will work to achieve a neutral pH. If there is too much acid, it will use its store of alakaline minerals to reduce the acid. Guess where those are stored.

I am certain that this was one of my pitfalls.

Her newsletters are very good. Also check out her information on prunes reversing osteoporosis.

http://www.betterbones.com/

1julie

The person who writes the nutrition information for the better bones site has a masters and a PhD in anthropology, with a certification in nutrition. This means she has most likely never been in a grad level physiology, endocrinology or biochemistry class. Her expertise is not in medical physiology. Nor id I read her definition of at what ph a persons blood is acidotic enough to cause calcium to be taken from the bones. She does seem to be well meaning, but I don't find her a trustworthy source on the whole acid/alkaline issue. I read her alkaline information and wonder what evidence, either scientific or experiential, she is basing her assertions on? It just doesn't make sense to me. My hunch could be wrong, I admit that, but I would like to learn what the evidence is that we need to be testing our ph--(do we test our urine? our blood? our saliva?) and eating food from a list of alkaline foods--when every list is different. I am concerned that this hypothesis is asking a lot of people to pay obsessive attention to the ph of foods and all for naught. If humans and animals needed ph paper and lists of foods in order to eat a healthy diet, we would al have gone extinct long ago. I do believe a diet of processed food creates conditions of un-health in our body. There is plenty of evidence that pop (aka soda), processed fats, sugar, refined carbohydrates are bad for us. Why not just eat natural foods in good balance and forget the ph paper? I would love to know.

DeskJockey101

Woody, thanks for the information on the 5 basics for bone health - i was attempting to do the acidic diet and for 2 days was always finishing on the acidic side and that was without grains or cheese! I am copying the 5 steps and posting it by my fridge and puter to keep it handy and to remind me so that when i see things when serfing, this will keep me grounded and ripped off by snake oil salesmen so to speak. Thanks again, Lindie

LindaSS

Hi fellow warriors in the fight to figure out how to get our bones (and the rest of well).

I noted the comment " this hypothesis is asking a lot of people to pay obsessive attention to the ph of foods and all for naught. If humans and animals needed ph paper and lists of foods in order to eat a healthy diet, we would al have gone extinct long ago." Yeah, I think that we can wind our selves into a knot trying one thing and the next not sure what we're doing or why. And I agree that if humans and animals needed ph paper and a list of foods in order to eat a healthy diet we'd have gone extinct.

I'm not an authority on anything. No Phd here (I have a bacholor of science degree in computer science :) But, anyone can try this simple plan. Get your blood and urine tested by your Doc and find out if you're low in D, Magnesium, Calcium (the ones you have to get right) and then common sense dictacts "how did I become deficient" if you are. Well, with me I never went in the sun ever because my mom had skin cancer and I was taught that I had to stay out of the sun. So my Dr put me on high dosage of D and has my intake of calcium and mag etc straightened out.

Then I reflected on my diet. I always ate a high protein diet to the exclusion of veggies or fruit. I have had strong pain for well over 20 years (labeled irritable bowel syndrome and fiber myalgia). So, I've been an extreme eater of 'acidic food'. I simply switched to veggies and was astonished that all the pain went away. That's why I'm big on the acidic/alkaline theory - I got relieved of extreme pain. So, if I am relieved of pain, could there be benefits for correcting my osteoporis? I think it's worth it for me to consider this theory seriously and see what I find out further - we're talking about eating more veggies and less protein if we see that we're not big on the veggies. I see other people saying pretty much the same thing but using different ways of explanation (like Woody and his 5 basics). Bottom line they are simple natural things that we need to consider as possiblities (like drink enough water, excercise with weight bearing, etc). Our ancestors did this stuff naturally - they carried a lot of stuff while we now sit behind computers (at least that's what I've been doing unfortunately). I've build great systems while my own system dismantled from lack of use.

The positive is that because of changes I've made, now my blood levels are good and my PTH which was abnormal as well became normal. For these reasons I think considering whether one is eating 'enough' veggies (which is alkaline food) and whether they might be eating 'too much' protein can be worth it if it could take away horrible chronic pain like I had and possibly help my osteoporosis (which I'm still working on 'how that all works' which I think Woody and his 5 basics are worth trying as I haven't found anything else that's better for me as personally I've seen instant results). Woody just keeps it simple - I cluttered the discussion by bringing in the alkaline/acidic talk (but I like to know why and how things work and this looked like a very viable explanation since I was an extreme example that responded well to the theory).

I think you're absolutely right that our ancestors would have been extinct (which with the increase of obese people I see that I didn't see in the 50's) I'd say that our diet has changed radically with hydogenated oils, high fructose sweeteners, perservatives, etc. It isn't just about veggies/protein balance. But, most of our ancestors ate plants and killed what they could find. My husband and I lived off the land in 1975-1984 and we ate out of our garden and he hunted. Although he was an excellent hunter we ate a lot of dove :) or no meat that night (note one daily serving of protein). And we weren't growing grain and making bread (that's a hassle). My point is that it's easier to eat a plant than kill something and that perhaps eating veggies (along with enough protein) could be what nature intended. I just happily stumbled into the whole acidic/alkaline discussion which is nothing more than I'm eating more veggies....and now I am pain free in my gut and my muscles along with having a blissfull calmness from tension (that's a sincere miracle for me).

Everyone is going to have to find their own path. I would hope though if just by eating more veggies that if someone else could be relieved of the horrible pain I've been in could benefit as I have, that telling them what I found for myself is worth the experiment of trying it as veggies can't hurt anyone. The worst result would be that if would have no effect. But, if they are as off balance as I was they will see results within a week (I started by just drinking a lot of V8 juice with low sodium and making sure I was taking my calcium/magnesium 4 times a day in low dose to a total of about 1200/550 ish with 1000 IU of D3 5 times a day to a total of 5000 IU D3 (don't go by what I'm doing on dosage - work with your Dr based on what your blood level says you need - everyone is different - this is what my Dr says I should be doing and isn't a standard for anyone else).

I love the vigorous discussions we're having as this keeps us all on our toes to just not settle for 'wishful thinking or an easy fix' but to keep testing our ideas against the measurable results we get. If you've reversed your osteoporosis without drugs I want to hear how you did it. At the same time I think skepticism is very important, to question everything and ask exactly how something works and why. I also think it's a balanced perspective to consider how our ancestors did live - our solutions to our health may be incredibly easy by just finding out what we're doing wrong that got us unhealthy. Like me, no sunshine! No veggies! No weight bearing exercise and I was a skinny dieter during my teen years! I don't drink water! And I drank alcohol up til 1998 (I quit because I thought it could be affecting my health). I know my ancestors didn't live like that. Again DUH - I can see how I came to have osteoporosis! But besides these unhealthy practices I've unknowingly done, if we have osteoporosis there's a chance that we could have a parathyroid tumor which can be followed up on by PTH testing etc) - so, we need a Dr helping us rule out these type of problems as well.

I think you're all so awesome! I know together we can help each other get healthier by continuing to share info we're researching, our theories, what we've tried, and our results. We're on a great adventure that I think will have very positive results.

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