Strontium, Vitamin K2 and Osteoporosis: Case Study III

• By lilypads
• Reply 3430955
• October 4, 2012 at 2:25 pm
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Excellent work, Sara!

I am 70 and increased my BMD more than 25% in 5 years using strontium citrate and NOW Full Spectrum Minerals CAPS, which contain all the minerals needed for strong bones. My success story (along with those of others) can be found here: http://www.inspire.com/groups/national-osteoporosis-foundation/discussion/s till-more-sucess-stories/ (Click on the first link for my story.)

A good study you may not have seen, done in Canada last year: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jeph/2012/354151/

And an excellent article on how Vitamin K2 (as MK4) works: http://www.inspire.com/groups/national-osteoporosis-foundation/discussion/v it-k-as-mk4-prevents-fractures-by-stimulating-collagen-production/

• By mcsurf
• Reply 3431345
• October 4, 2012 at 4:30 pm
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Yes, Sara this is indeed a good report. I am encouraged, as I am a Strontium user, too.

Blessings!

• By PatriciaF
• Reply 3431966
• October 4, 2012 at 9:02 pm
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I want to thank both of you for your excellent research and publishing your results. Lilypads, I am in the process
of reading your posts and articles, but I have some specific questions. Should I ask here or send you a friend request
or what?

Thanks

• By SaraD
• Reply 3432204
• October 4, 2012 at 10:50 pm
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Thank you for responding to my case study III. Each time one of us reports our data and outcomes over an extended time period we will add to the growing momentum that physicians must look outside the "standards of care" box that encases them in one way of thinking about osteoporosis.

Doborah Franklin has an excellent article in the August 2012 issue of Scientific American titled "Cracks in the Bone Test".

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=doctors-improve-osteoporos is-screens

BMD can not stand alone or the gold standard of our risk for fracture.

Lilypads thank you for the links.

• By DaphneYoung
• Reply 3432387
• October 5, 2012 at 12:26 am
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Sara,
Thanks for sharing your success story! I have been wondering whether Strontium Citrate could possibly be the reason I seem to feel bloated and retain water. Is it a salt derivative?

• By lilypads
• Reply 3432487
• October 5, 2012 at 2:25 am
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Patricia, why don't you ask me here, since then others can see the process and we can link to the discussion if we want to.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3432490
• October 5, 2012 at 2:33 am
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Daphne, the chemical deifinition of a SALT is "a solid that has a very definite crystalline structure. . . . All salts are similar in that they have high melting points and have the ability to conduct an electric current when they are melted or in water solution." Unified Chemistry, Henry Dorin, 1973.

I am only stating this because the fact that strontium citrate is a salt, as chemically defined, does not mean that it would behave in a similar manner to sodium chloride, table salt. There are many salts and "they vary greatly in many of their properties."

If you are concerned that strontium citrate is causing you to bloat and retain water, stop taking it, and see what happens.

• By dianezj
• Reply 3433166
• October 5, 2012 at 10:07 am
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thank you for sharing! IMpressive and gives hope to all of us.

• By penalopy
• Reply 3433753
• October 5, 2012 at 1:12 pm
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thanks so much, I have learned a lot from you gals, myDoc said my bones were improving, also my eye Doc. says my eyes have gotten beter who knows why? maybe strontium

• By PatriciaF
• Reply 3434701
• October 5, 2012 at 7:29 pm
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Hi Lilypads, thanks for the your response. Since I have not finished reading everything and won't
be for awhile yet, can I just ask you 2 questions that I had written down while reading the material.

1. Question about vitamin D - We retired to a very sunny climate, the Republic of Panama. I am out in
the sun a lot swimming and gardening. Actually, I have not been able to do much gardening lately
due to back pain from my scoliosis. I am having a bout with sciatica. I have been reluctant to bump
up my vitamin D3 intake to 4 to 5 thousand because I get so much sun. My current intake of D, including
food and supplements is probably in the 1800 range. Do you have any idea how much I might be
getting from the sun and if I should take more D supplement?
2. I recently started taking strontium citrate (3 weeks ago) and NOW Full Spectrum Mineral CAPS.
I am adding items slowly and gradually raising dosages because if something starts to bother me, I
need to have a pretty good idea what it might be. I am up to 680 on Strontium and that is fine. I am taking
2 per day of the NOW product (in addition to 1 calcium citrate plus D that the Norman Clinic started me
on). The package directions say to take 4 per day. Do you think I should take that many - I am a small person.

SaraD also - please feel free to comment if you have any ideas.

Thank-you, lilypads - I am sure I will be bothering you with more questions. I am just starting to dig into the
Vitamin K issue.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3434794
• October 5, 2012 at 8:09 pm
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Patricia, if you can possibly get your Vitamin D level tested, that would be better than either of us guessing. Life Extension offers many reasonably priced tests, if you can't get it done in Panama. www.lef.org

I think the mineral levels in the NOW caps are, if anything, on the low side, with the possible exception of manganese. I did take only 3 of the CAPS for quite a while, since I was concerned about getting too much calcium. But for the last several years I have taken all 4. Going slowly is generally a good idea, but maybe you could go up to 3.

I have never seen any sensible comments on the body size issue, though it certainly makes sense that smaller people would need less. I am neither big nor small.

I don't think anyone should take more than 700 mg of calcium in supplements. How much are you getting in your calcium citrate?

Vitamin K2 is SO important. It might be good to start with some MK7 to find out if you're one of the 65% who can tolerate it. It's quite inexpensive. Then if you have problems with sleep or palpitations, you can switch to MK4. In the meantime, read about it. Even if you can handle the MK7, MK4 has benefits that MK7 doesn't have, though both seem to keep calcium out of arteries and put it in bones.

• By PatriciaF
• Reply 3435136
• October 5, 2012 at 10:34 pm
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My calcium citrate gives me 500, but I plan to replace that with the NOW formula.

If I take 4 of the NOW formula, won't that give me 2000 calcium, or are you talking about elemental calcium
which is 20%. I really don't know how to calculate the calcium.

I will get my D tested - the Norman clinic wants to see it anyway. Thanks for the link.

I read about the Vitamin K2 and I am going to order it, what brand do you recommend and how much should I take
once I am up to full dosage?

Thanks again for the info.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3435245
• October 5, 2012 at 11:29 pm
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With the NOW caps, the quantities are for a SERVING, and a serving is 4 capsules. So if you take 4 capsules a day, you get 500 mg of calcium. If you are getting 500 from your calcium citrate, with 2 NOW caps, you're getting 750.

MK7 stays in your body 3 days, so some people take it every other day or even every 3 days. Since MK7 costs $11.49 for 60 by itself, you might as well get Vitacost Ultra Vitamin K with Advanced K2 Complex, which is $11.69 for 90. That has 1000 mcg K1, 100 mcg MK7 and 1300 mcg MK4. I was taking it every day, and it caused me to wake up at 3 or 4 am and not be able to get back to sleep. This happens to about 35% of people. The other 65% process MK7 quickly and have no problems with it. But it has a slightly stimulating effect, so I felt wonderful, even though I wasn't sleeping enough.

Because it contains some MK4, which will wear off in 6-8 hours, you may notice some of the beneficial effects of MK4. (I noticed my sinus congestion clear within about 15 minutes of taking it in the morning, and then the congestion returned in the late afternoon.)

If it turns out to keep you awake or cause palpitations, you can give the bottle to someone who most likely will be part of the 65%. Or maybe your husband can use it. I think everyone over 50 should take K2 to prevent calcium buildup in the arteries.

• By PatriciaF
• Reply 3436491
• October 6, 2012 at 1:29 pm
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Gee, Lilypads, I missed that. I really feel stupid, but that is good news because I won't be getting too much
calcium. However, I will definitely need more D than I am getting now. I will order a 2000 supplement for now.
Can you offer some choices of brands for the D? I may go up to 3 on the NOW mineral formula.

I feel I need to choose MK4 because I am hyperactive and have been an insomniac most of my life. Also, I need
to stick to Amazon for convenience since we live in Panama. Life Extension offers a Super K complex, what do you
think of that? I would be willing to try something including MK7, but I am likely to have problems.

Also, what B-50 complex did you take or just vitamin B6?

Thanks, this is really helping me get a plan together - it can be so confusing.

I believe I had told you, I just had parathyroid surgery a month ago. In another month I need to get blood tests
for serum calcium and D. Hopefully, I can get the D done in Panama. Nothing is ever easy here. I will have a better
idea what i am doing once I get these tests, especially the D. My doctors want me on extra calcium right now
because my PTH was so low after the surgery, so that is why I still take the one calcium citrate per day. As long
as my serum calcium is not too low, I can stop that in about a month.

• By BoneLady
• Reply 3441163
• October 8, 2012 at 12:33 pm
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DaphneYoung,

Your bloating could be caused by constipation. This is just one possible cause. If the bloating continues after following the suggestions below, see your physician.

“Calcium supplements can have a mild binding effect but by themselves don’t usually cause serious constipation. But if you’re taking another supplement or medication that binds the stool, the addition of calcium supplements could cause a problem.”

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/What_you_need_to_know_about_calcium. htm

Taking a calcium supplement and strontium citrate (separated by two to four hours from each other) can cause constipation, which can lead to bloating. I know this from personal experience and from the experience of a few others who have posted comments here or on my blog. If you are experiencing these symptoms, increasing your fiber and water intake, and getting adequate magnesium from food and supplements, may relieve your symptoms. A diet high in fruits and vegetables should provide adequate magnesium. My calcium supplement also contains magnesium in a ratio of 2:1 calcium to magnesium. These guidelines work for me. Others may need Dulcolax, a laxative pill.

http://www.natural-indigestion-relief.com/magnesium-and-constipation.html

• By BoneLady
• Reply 3441170
• October 8, 2012 at 12:35 pm
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SaraD,

Congratulations on your latest published case study!

• By SaraD
• Reply 3441282
• October 8, 2012 at 1:16 pm
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Bone Lady,

Please post my case study on your blog if you think it will help move the cause forward.

Also did you see the August 2012 issue of Scientific American "Cracks in the Bone Test" by Deborah Franklin? The article is readable and has good information.

• By BoneLady
• Reply 3444355
• October 9, 2012 at 1:41 pm
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SaraD,

I have included a post about your case study with a link to it on my blog.

I will look at the Scientific American article as soon as I can.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3444551
• October 9, 2012 at 2:58 pm
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Patricia, I don't think brand is important with D, because I've been using Swanson's, which is really cheap, and it's kept my levels right up where I want them. You may be able to get Swanson's through Amazon, but if not, just be sure it's D3 and the dosage you want.

I think the Life Extension Super K is fine, although Vitacost makes an almost identical product that costs less and has a bit more MK4. It's called Ultra Vitamin K with Advanced K2 Complex.

If you're worried about fractures and want to take 15 mg of MK4, 3x a day, the best buy is http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Menatetrenone-Capsules-Complementary-Prescripti ons/dp/B0057ZGWDW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1349722225&sr=8-6&keywords=menatet renone

Otherwise, Carlson's MK4 5 mg is available at Amazon.

It sounds as if the stimulating effect of MK7 is not something you need, so you may be happier with MK4. If you aren't worried about fractures, about 2 mg of MK4 3x a day is most likely sufficient. The least expensive way to do that is to open the Complementary Prescription capsule and divide it into 7 equal piles and add the powder to a spoonful of coconut oil. If that's too much trouble, every drop of the Thorne drops is 1 mg MK4.

• By PatriciaF
• Reply 3446855
• October 10, 2012 at 11:17 am
• Report post

Great idea, Lylipads. I think I will order the Ultra K2 and start by dividing up the capsules. Then, if I tolerate it
well, I can gradually increase to the full dosage. I am not especially worried about fractures, but want to take
the full dosage in the study as long as I can tolerate it.

Your help with my program has been priceless! Thanks so much.