Salt causes heart attacks, strokes, cancer, renal disease, and osteoporosis

• By Beth
• Posted June 25, 2009 at 12:13 pm
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All,

This discussion is quickly disintegrating into a completely unproductive one. If Debbie and rmchavin want to continue this discussion, please do so privately.

I also remind everyone that no one in the group that this group is not for giving or receiving diagnoses. Nothing written in this group should ever take the place of advice or instructions from your primary care giver.

Beth, TeamInspire

• By debbie59
• Posted June 25, 2009 at 11:37 am
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RM! YOU ARE REALLY STARTING TO CREEP ME OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as the copd , my sat levels are fine. Also a 93% sat level is not considered a very low number. Below 88% at rest is! You still haven't divulged what you do, ya know, for a living! I'm glad you got all A's in high school, then what? I'm not quite sure what your "thinking" you are on first name basis with Obama has to do with anything. PLEASE no PUBMED reports. I do know how to read for myself! Oh, I carried a 3.8 at Florida State in environmental sciences. Would you like to know what my husband and sons GPA's were? Now I have to drag my poor ole osteoporotic body and copd ridden lungs out in the 90 degree humid air and water my garden, collect greens for a salad and start dinner.

• By rmchavin
• Posted June 25, 2009 at 10:53 am
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Dear debbie59:

I was a straight A student at the same high school in Hawaii that now U.S. President Barack Obama attended. In the 1975 to 1976 school year, Barry Obama sang as a 9th grader in the school choir. In the exact same 1975 to 1976 school year, I was the 11th grade bassoon player in the school orchestra. Earlier, you told all of us that you had COPD. I couldn't find much good news for people with COPD. The only positive thing I could find was that you can fight both COPD and osteoporosis at the same time by greatly increasing your consumption of fruits and vegetables. Here are 3 PubMed studies that teach us how to prevent COPD from getting any worse: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9846595 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12192737 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10466172 By the way, is it true that people with severe COPD tend to develop a grouchy, combative personality because their blood oxygen saturation number, which should be as high as 97 to 99 in people with normal lung function, drops to as low as 93 or even lower in people with severe COPD?

• By debbie59
• Posted June 25, 2009 at 6:37 am
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RM, I think we would all like to know what degrees you have that make you an authority on everything? (or so YOU think) Anyone can quote pubmed. Just tell us where your unending fountain of knowledge comes from! I personally think you're unhinged!

• By rmchavin
• Posted June 24, 2009 at 8:13 pm
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Dear debbie59:

Earlier, we discussed the possible causes for abnormally low blood pressure (hypotension). We couldn't agree over whether the existence of hypotension very likely meant a higher risk for death or not. Here are 10 PubMed studies that discuss orthostatic hypotension (OH) and postprandial hypotension (PPH) and their nearness to death: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9288010 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12122885 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16078956 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18795982 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16894039 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10912737 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18046101 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9989539 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15244385 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19545672 In conclusion, abnormally low blood pressure (hypotension), whether postprandial and/or orthostatic, is not something to be taken lightly and dismissed. A thorough medical examination, complete blood testing, and complete urine testing are indicated. Heart failure or kidney-failure-causing heart-failure should be suspected. Although Medicare probably could not be made to pay for it, a CT scan would be desireable. (Tell your doctor you'll pay 100% of the cost of the CT scan out of your own pocket). Although a systolic blood pressure of 70 to 80 would be completely normal and healthy for a person who is sleeping, the "resting" blood pressure for someone who is awake should be between 100 and 140 systolic. A person with a "resting" blood pressure of 90 systolic or 150 systolic should be somewhat concerned that something is wrong. Earlier, Southernlady had written, "...my blood pressure is so low they usually have to use a child's blood pressure band...sometimes they wonder if I have a heartbeat...in fun but mine is really low, some of them being like 70/54 and I don't remember but very low and I ask is there anything I need to take or do and they say no.?????"

• By SusanRae
• Posted June 24, 2009 at 4:58 pm
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Looks like there's a pubmed study--or two . . . or ten--for every topic.

• By rmchavin
• Posted June 24, 2009 at 12:27 am
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The fascinating thing about the Greenland Inuit is that despite their incredibly high bodily levels of mercury, PCBs, PCDDs, PCDFs, PBDEs, DDEs, and other pollutants, and despite their very heavy cigarette smoking, and despite their very high alcohol consumption, the Greenland Inuit have only half the total cancer rate of people in the U.S. and cardiovascular disease is virtually non-existent among the Greenland Inuit. Yes, the Greenland Inuit have a very high rate of osteoporosis because they are hunters who don't eat much fruits or vegetables. They eat mostly just fish and marine mammals that eat fish and/or krill. Yes, the Greenland Inuit have a high rate of some specific cancers. For example, they have a high rate of stomach and esophageal cancers because they like to use salt to make their fish and marine mammal meat taste better. Because they don't eat much fruits or vegetables, their upper digestive tract is defenseless against the cancer-causing nitrosamines created by the salt in their seafood. Yes, their lung cancer rate is rising due to their heavy cigarette smoking. But their total cancer rate is still very low thanks to the omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin D, and selenium in their seafood. Here is a PubMed study that confirms the low cardiovascular disease rate among the Greenland Inuit: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19321560 Like the U.S. and other wealthy nations, the incidence of Type 2 adult-onset diabetes has been rising among the Greenland Inuit over the last 30 years. Many experts once blamed this on the incredibly high bodily levels of pollutants in the Greenland Inuit. However, here is a PubMed study that says that persistent organic pollutants (POPs) have nothing to do with their rising rate of adult-onset diabetes: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18560802 In fact, the following PubMed study says that those in Greenland who ate the most seal meat actually had the lowest risk of developing diabetes: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12351475 Many experts once blamed the incredibly high bodily levels of pollutants in the Greenland Inuit for their high rate of irregular menstrual cycles. But here is a PubMed study that says that pollutants were not the cause of their high rate of irregular menstrual cycles: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17989067 Finally, many experts once blamed the very high osteoporosis rate among the Greenland Inuit on their incredibly high bodily levels of pollutants. However, this PubMed study says that pollutants were not the cause of their very high rate of osteoporosis: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17184534 In conclusion, I stand by my earlier statement that the Greenland Inuit have been extremely fortunate in having largely escaped any substantial punishment for their incredibly high bodily levels of pollutants: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10682367 (Having more daughters than sons is not enough to alter my conclusion). This should be a lesson to all those who have caused great harm by scaring people into eating less fish that they should be much, much, much more concerned about the cancer-causing chemicals, cholesterol-oxidizing free radicals, and artery-clogging trans fats in their grilled/barbecued/broiled/fried meats and in their salted/pickled/processed foods. These chemicals greatly increase our death rate from all cancers, cardiovascular disease, cerebrovascular disease, pneumonia, and Alzheimer's disease to name just a few.

P.S.: Here are 3 PubMed studies that might help us to predict the gender ratio at birth of Greenland Inuit babies: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16675426 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15860497 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18627595

• By debbie59
• Posted June 22, 2009 at 4:25 pm
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GO SUSAN, I just have one thing to add about farm raised fish. They taste really bad, to me anyways. I have a stocked fish pond (not farm bred, they're on their own) but I haven't even eaten any of them. My grandkids and the farmer next doors grandkids fish, but they always catch and release. I keep trying to get someone to take the catfish. I swear they are the size of submarines!!

• By SusanRae
• Posted June 22, 2009 at 2:44 pm
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Hey rmchavin,

I must disagree with you on your statement:

"Strangely enough, the Greenland Eskimos seem not to be harmed much by their incredibly high bodily levels of mercury, PCBs, and other pollutants. "

I think they are being greatly harmed by the pollutants that are making their way up north. Please read this article from the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/12/gender.sciencenews

The Inuit have extremely high levels of PCBs and other toxic chemicals in their bloodstreams. This is just one article on the subject. You're right not to eat large marine mammels such as whales, but these people don't have any other choice.

Also, farmed fish may not have toxic levels of mercury, but they have many other problems. It is suspected they couldpotentially carry mad cow disease because of the meal they are fed. (Science Daily.com http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090616080143.htm) Fish farms can spread diseases and parasites such as lepeophterius salmonis to wild stock. They are also depleting the source of wild feed fish--the fish they catch and feed to the farmed fish. Water around fish farms is polluted with fish waste. The European Public Health Allicnce says, when speaking about European famed fish "in the worst cases, it should not be eaten more than three times a year." (http://www.epha.org/a/991) They also say "American and Canadian researchers took samples from 700 wild and farmed salmon purchased from shops in North and South America and Europe. The fish were tested for levels of 14 toxic chemicals known to be carcinogens, such as polychlorinated biphenols (PCBs), dioxins, dieldrin and toxaphene. These are among the so-called "Dirty Dozen" of persistent industrial pollutants, outlawed by an international treaty signed in 2001, that linger in the environment and build up in the fatty tissues of fish and marine mammals."

The fish farming industry has improved, but it has a long way to go before I would recommend buying it.

I know I'm not quoting pubmed, but as I said in an earlier post, take this all with a grain of salt!

Cheers,

Susan

• By debbie59
• Posted June 22, 2009 at 9:43 am
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Southernlady, You're most welcome. What he said to you was horrible and patently untrue!! He's now been riding my case and I got some very good advice from another member on my friend list, who he rode before me. Just listen to your Dr. as rmchavin is not! In fact He won't divulge what he is. ( Except extremely Obese ) My husband is a psychologist and says he has issues, other than osteoporosis. Oh, RM is male, not that that has anything to do with it as the "good advise" I got was also from a man.

• By Southernlady
• Posted June 21, 2009 at 10:16 pm
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The curse I sent to the pits of hell is cancer........not the poster. Just in case someone gets upset. And if you do.......sorry.......it is amazing I have asked questions, really simple ones when this site first started and really only a few ladies answered me........and now people diagnose on this site.

• By Southernlady
• Posted June 21, 2009 at 10:14 pm
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My grandparents died 12 years ago this year.....I am now 52 they were in their 80's. Again thank you Debbie 59.

• By Southernlady
• Posted June 21, 2009 at 10:06 pm
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I just read this and I am in total shock.........I can't believe RMCHAVIN said what she said about me. IN JESUS NAME I BIND THAT CURSE TO THE PITS OF HELL.

Thank you Debbie59 for taking up for me.........if I had that C word I am sure I would have had symptoms.......I don't want to be on this site anymore.

• By debbie59
• Posted June 20, 2009 at 9:06 pm
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AGAIN RM, I hate fried foods. Always have! I also do not like barbeque. I grill sometimes on a gas grill, but what the hay, gotta have a little bit of fun. Besides, it gets me out of cooking as around here grillin is mans work! I noticed in your profile that you advised people about screen savers and viruses if they did not OBEY your advise. My advise is to you is you could just get a Mac!

• By rmchavin
• Posted June 20, 2009 at 7:37 pm
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Dear debbie59:

I'm happy to hear that you are eating the kind of diet that I approve of, the kind of diet that I would recommend to my friends. (I remember that getting PikaB to admit that he ate vegetables was a very difficult chore for me). However, I feel that you shouldn't get too overconcerned about the mercury in fish. I think you should be much, much, much more concerned about the artery-clogging trans fat in fried foods and the cholesterol-oxidizing free radicals in the grilled/barbecued/broiled meats that you say you eat occasionally: http://www.joyfulaging.com/HighTemperatureCancer.htm Did you know that the widely publicized cancer-causing chemicals called heterocyclic amines (HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) actually kill more people by clogging their arteries (oxidizing their LDL cholesterol) than by triggering new cancers?

• By debbie59
• Posted June 20, 2009 at 6:21 pm
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RM, Who said I ate processed foods?? I am a country woman. I have a garden, a stocked fish pond and I raised chickens (free range ) for eggs for years!! I'm known in my county for my prowess in the kitchen. You are preoccupied with cancer. You're going to stress yourself into the big C. I thought your problem was osteoporosis? You ought to lighten up, you'll live longer, but remember we all die from something. As far as the Indian people ONLY doubling their lifespan and not knowing why the Inuit aren't affected by toxins in their whale blubber is probably akin to why Andean Indians utilize oxygen differently than other humans. I suppose over time we change to fit our environment. That does bring me to an area of knowledge (besides cooking and being mom and grandma) that I do has some expertise in. My major in college was Environmental Science. ( Old tree hugger )

• By rmchavin
• Posted June 20, 2009 at 4:47 pm
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Dear debbie59:

Solar UV radiation not only causes skin cancers but also corneal damage and cataracts. India is not the best place to prove that curry, turmeric, and curcumin prevent cancer because the average lifespan in India is not very long. (It has doubled from what it once was but it still is very short relative to the wealthy nations). The average lifespan in Africa has gone the other way - it has gotten much, much, much shorter - due to HIV and other viruses. I once ate whale meat. It was extremely delicious - similar to Chilean Sea Bass. Unfortunately, all marine mammal meats have about 10 to 20 times the mercury and PCBs of fish, so I don't plan on eating it again. Strangely enough, the Greenland Eskimos seem not to be harmed much by their incredibly high bodily levels of mercury, PCBs, and other pollutants. Keep in mind that farmed fish never have a problem with mercury. The only wild fish that have worrisome levels of mercury are all sharks, all marlins, swordfish, tilefish, king mackerel, bigeye tuna, and bluefin tuna. You should be much, much, much more concerned about things like nitrosamines in your salted/pickled/processed foods and cancer-causing chemicals on your grilled/barbecued/broiled meats. http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/securit/chem-chim/environ/mercur/servey_sondag e-eng.php http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/sea-mehg.html

• By debbie59
• Posted June 20, 2009 at 3:46 pm
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RM, I eat fish. I also eat fruits and vegetables. I also eat dairy, grains and sometimes a big bloody steak. Sometimes I even splurge and have an alcoholic drink. Did you know that most Dr.s will tell you to take fish oil capsules to get the amt of omega 3 you need as too much fish can have toxic levels of mercury. Now that doesn't mean I never eat fish but did you know pregnant women are advised to not partake in seafood? The Inuit people (who eat a lot of whale blubber,yuck!) have a totally different lifestyle than I. One I would not want. Also did you know that the people of India also have a lower incidence of cancers? They attribute this to the high amount of tumeric in there diets. Now I love curry! I wouldn't want their lifestyle either. I think I'll just stick to a diet of a wide variety of foods and not over eat so as to maintain a good BMI. Also the best place to obtain vitamin D is the sun but not good for your skin. My rheumatologist has me mega dosing vitamin D3.

• By rmchavin
• Posted June 20, 2009 at 1:48 pm
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Dear debbie59:

Did you know that areas of the world where the people have a high consumption of fish and seafood (such as the Eskimos/Inuit of Greenland) have an even lower total cancer rate than areas of the world where the people have a high consumption of antioxidant-rich fruits and vegetables? The 3 most important reasons for this are that fish and seafood are: (1) high in the omega-3 fatty acids, eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid, (2) high in vitamin D, and (3) high in selenium. Here's a very interesting PubMed study done in Logan, Utah - less than 30 miles away from the Great Salt Lake - in which selenium (OR=0.27)outperformed vitamin E (OR=0.29), beta-carotene (OR=0.39), and other antioxidants in preventing hip fractures: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16306312 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Salt_Lake

• By debbie59
• Posted June 15, 2009 at 6:33 pm
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NO BLOOD PRESSURE< YES!!!!!! Low blood pressure no. It can be anything from genetic to
drugs or drug interactions. My husband has had low blood pressure all his life and my guess is southernlady has too. She didn't sound like it was anything new. I did do my math though and if her grandparents just passed away and she is 52 they were most likely in or close to their 90's. That's a double dose of good genes. Maybe in Hawaii your soil lacks selenium but here in the bread basket of the world, I assure you it is not. Also too much fish can cause mercury poisoning. I go by the old adage "All things in moderation". Cept eggplant-hate eggplant!!!!