New and questions (sorry long)

I am male and 50 years old. I have a type of arthritis called ankylosing spondylitis and Osteoporosis is a possible side effect due to the inflammation caused by TNF and Interleukin 23.

Well three years ago the arthritis hit my feet with Plantar fasciitis and walking became painful. I struggled with this for all three years and only now am getting it under control. Well low and behold the years of little exercise and impact did me in and my T scores are now 3.1 - 3.3 across the board for neck, spine, and hips. I have one compressional fracture but I did that skiing about 7 years ago and doc and I don't see any fractures from osteoporosis yet.

The good news I am feeling better and I am walking and exercising agin. I am now walking about 1.5 miles every night and lifting weights every other night again.

Looking at treatment options now.

Doc thinks reclast, (I have had reflux and stricture problems in past so fosomax probably out) I am leaning Forteo for a year and hope the Strontium product in phase 3 trials in the US in on the market within two years.

Any thoughts or success stories with strontium citrate, reclast, or Forteo?

Since my activity is so much better now is there a chance I can see at least small improvement on exercise and diet alone? Goal would be to get back to at least a -2.5 score range.

soooo many questions and thanks in advance for any responses. I see the doc in about a month and we will discuss treatment options.

By SequoiaHealth
Posted February 12, 2009 at 7:07 am
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Hi drizzit:

I work with many women and some men with osteoporosis and/or osteopenia. We always try to increase bone density without medications first because of the potential side effects of so many of the drugs.

I would be interested in knowing your current supplement, exercise, water intake and nutrition program. These four components can make a major difference in bone density. Vitamin D levels are also very important to bone growth and development. Have you been tested and what is your score?

Once I have this information, we can talk more about changes or additions to your current regimen.

We are all unique and consequently each and every person needs their own program. I have never seen two programs exactly alike.

Hope this helps.

Woody McMahon
Reston/Herndon Osteoporosis Support Group Leader

By drizzit
Posted February 12, 2009 at 10:08 pm
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Thanks for the response

I have tried to simplify things up over the last month.

For breakfast:
Corn or Rice based cereal/2% milk and a glass of vitD and Calcium enriched OJ

Sometimes I do an Denver Omlette and OJ

Lunch:
Rice/Chicken/Bean Soup, Fruit, Aged CheddarCheese
or
Salami, Cheese, and fruit and maybe a sprite or 7up

Dinner varies
Meat of various kinds and a vegetable plus the same OJ with VitD and Calcium for a drink.

I occasionally add a yogurt or Ice Cream a couple of times a week.

I snack on Almonds and trail mix off and on all day.

If I miss the cheese or OJ I supplement that day with a Cal/Mag fizz drink with 50% of Calcium and Mag of daily requirement.

For Vitamin D I supplement 2000 IU in Summer and 4000 IU in winter. I live at 45 degree north latitude so need more in Winter, Last Vit D test was a 56. I forget the labels but i was happy with that number. I am looking to add a liquid multiple for Vit B and K.

For exercise I walk about 1 - 1.5 miles 5 to 6 days a week. I try to make it a fast walk. I also lift light weights every other night and work on a ball. ( multiple repetitions until muscle exhaustion)

My resting heart rate has fallen from 88 to 78 in 6 weeks on this workout :)

By April995
Posted February 13, 2009 at 7:18 am
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Drizzit,
If you take Forteo for two years, after that, you then have to take Fosomax or one of those types of drugs again.

I have started taking Strontium citrate,D3, Calcium but not with Strontium, and allot of other vits, although its too soon for a bone scan to know if its helping me!

Wondering if anyone else has this problem, but when I take K, I get leg cramps?? And now it is happening when I take my minerals with out K also!!

It seems there are a few people here that take Strontium with good results.

April

By SequoiaHealth
Posted February 14, 2009 at 7:18 am
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Hi drizzit:
Nutrition looks pretty good. Just remember the RDA recommendation for 7 servings of fruits and vegetables daily. Some of those should be calcium rich like broccoli. Also 8 glasses of water per day to keep body hydrated. All studies point to sodas as calcium robbers so stay away from those. You want adequate protein but not too much. High protein dehydrates your body.

Stress is another calcium robber so make sure you incorporate some daily relaxation time. Finally I would read some of the supplement recommendations on The Life Extension foundation website. They are well researched. There are few other antioxidants you would like to be taking on a regular basis.

Exercise program looks good.

Woody McMahon
Reston/Herndon Osteoporosis Support Group Leader

By rmchavin
Posted June 20, 2009 at 5:58 pm
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Dear drizzit:

Osteoporosis and osteoarthritis are very different diseases. In some ways, they are the opposite of each other. For example, if a person has osteoporosis, that person is much less likely to develop osteoarthritis and vice versa. However, we both know many people who have both osteoporosis and osteoarthritis. Here are 2 interesting PubMed studies: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18052758 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14703009 Glucosamine sulfate works well for about 60% of people with arthritis. Chondroitin sulfate is very expensive and works in only about 20% of people with arthritis. Since over 99.7% of chondroitin remains in our digestive tract and never enters our bloodstream, that 20% success rate may just be a "placebo effect." Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) is very economical and may be quite helpful for many forms of arthritis. You should try all the other unusual non-prescription arthritis chemicals too to see if they work for your form of arthritis. As for bisphosphonates, recent studies indicate that the less frequently a bisphosphonate is administered, the more likely the patient will tolerate that drug and agree to continue receiving treatment with that drug. Thus, I would recommend either intravenous Boniva (ibandronate) injected once every 3 months or intravenous Reclast (zoledronic acid) injected once every 1 year. PikaB has become something of an expert on Forteo (teriparatide) and intravenous Boniva (ibandronate). He says he has successfully tolerated both drugs relatively well. He might be able to answer specific questions for you. Keep in mind that only about half of all people can tolerate these heavy-duty osteoporosis drugs and happily move forward in the winner's bracket to reduce the incidence of future fractures by about 50%. If you end up in the loser's bracket - the unlucky half of all people - then Char42 has become something of an expert on how you can still fight back and win the battle against future fractures.

By betterbones
Posted June 20, 2009 at 9:12 pm
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To Drizzit,
Am curious about all your dairy intake - I am currently following no dairy diet because of all I've read about it not being so good (for our bones). I suggest you also take a look at PRUNES and bone building (just google that and you'll find info.).Eating foods with lots of K and D - like kale and collards are reported to help as well. Animal protein is not so hot (we need to keep it at a minimum so our kidneys won't leach calcium from our bones to process). I'm not saying you need to be vegan - I'm just sharing info. I found -- I'm opting to try non drug treatment as a first GO before I do the drugs.
A book called BETTER BONES BETTER BODY is very useful - the author had osteo. herself and has made reversing bone loss her life's work... she has a website too (Susan E Brown).-- where she lists the latest studies re. bone health and osteo etc...
Be well -

By April995
Posted June 21, 2009 at 7:17 pm
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Reading from my package of Pitted Prunes, And Raisons it reads:

About 5 prunes
Calories 110.
Calcium 20%.
sugars 14g.
Vitamin A 10%.
Vitamin C 0%.
Iron 2%.
Potassium 330 mg.
Carbs 27g.
Sodium 10mg.

Seedless Raisins-
1/4 Cup.
Calories 130.
Calcium 2%.
Vitamin A 0%.
Vitamin C 0%.
Iron 6%
Sugars 29%
Carbs 31g

I personally do not understand the big draw to eating Prunes or Raisons for Calcium, when there are others foods (not dairy) with more Calcium and more Vitamins, with less calories!!

By SusanRae
Posted June 22, 2009 at 7:42 pm
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Hi Drizzit~

Love that name. Does it have sci-fi origins? How much weight do you lift? My spine is -2.9 and someone in the weight vest discussion said I shouldn't try to lift more than five pounds or I'd risk a compression fracture. I'm giving strontium citrate a try (started last week), also calcium, D, K, fish oil and a couple of other things. Prunes, too. We'll see in a year if it's working. Considering the progrsterone cream that Woody's mentioned--I have Dr. Lee's book from the library that goes into the particulars (What your doctor may not tell you about menopause)

Hello April 995~

Prunes have an active ingredient that promotes bone growth--the name of it escapes me. Your internet search will give you the particulars. Or search the NOF wbsite.

Rmchavin,

Against the odds--apparently--I have recently been diagnosed with osteoarthritis in addition to osteoporosis. Coincidentally, the arthritis pain started within days of taking Fosamax--both knees, both shoulders, fingers of both hands, and neck--and continued to get worse as long as I took it. It's not getting worse now that I've stopped,nor has it gone away. X-rays show no signs of either osteo- or rheumatoid arthritis, but I can no longer walk up or down stairs and my knees and shoulders pop and click just like my grandma's. My new doctor said glucosamine doesn't work--but then he pretty much said all supplements don't work and I should just do what the endocrinologist said and take the Fosamax.

That's it for now.

Susan

By April995
Posted June 22, 2009 at 11:27 pm
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Thanks Susan for that info about the Prunes.

Sorry to hear of your reaction to taking Fosamax.

I had allot of pain for two weeks when I took the one monthly Boniva pill. But I never took another one.

My good Friend took Fosamax for a year, had two teeth pulled at different times while taking it recently.
Her Dentist a couple of weeks ago, asked her if she was taking Fosamax, when she said YES, he told her about the side effects it can cause to your mouth, and told her she might consiter to stop taking it!
Her Dr. Never said a word about any side effects taking Fosamax, Figures!!!

I have another friend that could not get out of bed till she took Asprin (think it was that one) for her pain in her hips from Osteoarthritis.
I told her a couple of years ago about Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and Msn. She said after a couple of months of taking that, she no longer took the Asprin, but was still in pain. Then she started adding "Hyaluronic Acid" to the brew, and said now, she is just about pain free!
She does do some exercises in the house everyday. I think her main exercise is , riding an indoor bike.

I have Osteo-arthritis in my neck, wrists, & two fingers.
I have been going to a P.T. for my Back, and neck.
Being on the computer really messes up my neck. My posture is awful,but its getting better, and I feel better....
The P.T. has showed me exercises to do for the Arthritis, and my Osteoporosis. I cannot tell you how much better I feel .
She showed me what I can, and cannot do cause of Osteoporosis.
If you can go to a good Physical Therapts it will make all the differents I think.

Take Care,
April

By SusanRae
Posted June 23, 2009 at 7:53 pm
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Char42,

The link you gave gives only nutrition date, e.g. calories, fiber, etc. That's not what we're interested in when we say that prunes may help with osteoporosis.

Here is a link to an article by Denver Naturopathic that talks about how prunes supposedly help osteoporosis.

http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/prunesandosteoporosis.htm

Here's a link to Florida State University where Professor Bahram H. Arjmandi did the study.

http://www.fsu.edu/news/2007/01/11/osteoporosis.study/

Here are some Q & As from Dr. Susan Brown. Click on the link within to read her blog. Then read the Q&As.

http://www.betterbones.com/blog/post/Prunes-and-Osteoporosise28094Your-Ques tions-Answered.aspx

Hope this helps.

Susan

By rmchavin
Posted June 23, 2009 at 8:57 pm
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For those of you who are more fascinated by prunes than by drizzit's problem with arthritis (ankylosing spondylitis), go to http://www.inspire.com/groups/national-osteoporosis-foundation/discussion/n ew-article-re-prunes-reversing-bone-loss/ To make a long story short, prunes may improve your bone health better than any other fruit or vegetable. Eating prunes is the 2nd most effective way to fight constipation (only psyllium husk, which is grown in and imported from India, works better than prunes at fighting constipation). Dihydrophenylisatin is the name of the specific phytochemical found only in prunes and plums which acts as a very effective laxative. Prunes are a rich source of phylloquinone (vitamin K1). Prunes have a very high ORAC antioxidant score. Although many dried foods are high in cancer-causing nitrosamines, prunes and other dried fruits almost never contain nitrosamines. Prunes are economical. Finally, although prune juice frequently tastes terrible, prunes are almost always very delicious. However, prunes also have some drawbacks, especially if they are consumed in excess. The worst disadvantage is that prunes contain a substantial amount of the cancer-causing chemical, IGF-I. Prunes also contain a substantial amount of the very mild carcinogen, tannin. Prunes are high in calories. Finally, prunes are high in oxalic acid. In conclusion, it's a good idea to eat prunes (in moderation), especially if you are thin and/or in poor bone health.

By Cheryl46
Posted June 23, 2009 at 10:37 pm
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Diatomaceous Earth-only the food grade-not industrial kind for pools, please. On the site: 'Earthworkshealth', has absolutely amazing claims to cure arthritis and bone ailments. Iam going to order some and try it and give a smaller amount to my poodle for degenerative hip joints-the surgery for this costs $3500. per hip for my dog. This is an outrageous price. I couldn't afford that. I have minor arthritis with osteopenia. I won't take Fosamax, anymore,and my daughter found this 'dirt stuff' that is a miracle. This site can explain the human-grade only and safe for people and pets. I think the dose is 1Tlb in juice a day for humans. Iam going to try this. It won't hurt anyone to read the claims of amazing cures. It is very inexpensive,too. 'cheap as dirt'! I hope this is a miracle cure for us. Also, kills all parasites etc.

By April995
Posted July 5, 2009 at 4:54 am
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Cheryl,
I see that website is about Silica.
Horsetail Silica is good for your bones, and makes your hair grow like crazy if you take a few aday.
Horsetail silica is not from a horse. ..
You can buy Silica it at any health food store.

Take Care,
April

By SusanRae
Posted July 5, 2009 at 7:56 pm
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Hi Cheryl,

Do you have personal experience that the diatomaceous earth kills paracites? I've used garden grade DE for killing soft bodies pests such as slugs. The instructions say to reapply after watering or rain because its efficacy is reduced by moisture. I would think mixing the stuff with water before ingestion would void any paracite killing effects.

If it's the silica that is helping, I'd go with the horsetail.

By Cheryl46
Posted July 5, 2009 at 8:51 pm
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Hi, Its the human-grade Diatomaceous earth (84% Silicon Dioxide (Silica). Earthworkshealth.com and Wolf Creek Ranch have stories where people and pets have been helped-with bones/parasites internally etc.
It has lots of silica which is good for bone density. The 'tea' I make is: Equal parts-1 to 3 oz:horsetail/shave grass, oatstraw and nettle leaf-simmered (6cups water)1.5hrs and can be a beverage or a soup base. The D.E. is a colon cleanser as well. I've recently read that it does wonders for bones. Iam just starting it, myself. But, it must be human-grade, only-the other industrial is poison. I, recently,discovered: MMS-Jim Humble-the miracle mineral. Cures malaria and MRSA etc. The claims for this is amazing. I haven't tried this, but, I am fascinated with the small price for both of these 'miracles'-they are so inexpensive-compared to the drugs from the doctors-that some struggle to pay for. These are worth, I beleive, reading about.

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