leg cramps and strontium -

• By LynH
• Reply 3484026
• October 24, 2012 at 6:07 am
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I sometimes get painful leg cramps at night in bed. I have no idea whether its related to the strontium, but I don't think so. If it was a DVT I assume the pain would continue, whereas mine goes off after a few minutes when I get up and walk around. I occasionally take an aspirin to try to ward off clotting problems. I should tell my doctor but she was against me going on strontium because of the cost to the NHS and would use any excuse to stop me having it on prescription. The Consultant allowed me to have it as I couldn't tolerate AA.

• By littlebitnhou
• Reply 3484094
• October 24, 2012 at 7:08 am
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LynH, do you take SC or Renelate?

• By LynH
• Reply 3484626 · In reply to 3484094 by littlebitnhou
• October 24, 2012 at 10:01 am
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I take strontium ranelate now. I took the citrated form (Dr's Best Stontium Bone Builder) for a while. I cannot remember whether I got cramp while taking this. I was happy with it but swapped when I finally managed to get SR on prescription.

Its the same active ingredient, which appears to be present in the same quantity as in the Dr's Best preparation. The downside of the SR is that it contains a very small quantity of aspartame. I don't have any problems with aspartame, but some folk are sensitive to it, which I assume is why the insert carries a warning that it can cause rare cases of hypersensitivity.

• By Meriel
• Reply 3484764
• October 24, 2012 at 10:41 am
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Can anyone tell me why Strontium Ranelate appears to be associated with thrombosis and Strontium Citrate doesn't? Surely the Ranelate is Strontium Citrate with Aspartame added?

Could someone please clarify?

• By chalk
• Reply 3485137
• October 24, 2012 at 12:32 pm
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I believe one explanation might be because studies were done on stronium renalate and not on strontium citrate which is over the counter and not taken under medical supervision or FDA controlled, so there isnt that much data on it. When people say it has NO side effects that isnt true, it simply hasnt been studied long term and recorded at this time. Most information is anecdotal.

For example, Think how long it took to put the extra warning on tylenol- an OTC drug (or even cigarettes), or to stop prescribing cough meds to children (yet they can get them OTC).

• By lilypads
• Reply 3485277
• October 24, 2012 at 1:11 pm
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One very common cause of leg cramps is meagnesium deficiency.

• By sedona97
• Reply 3485348
• October 24, 2012 at 1:39 pm
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My incredibly wonderful pain doctor (who prescribes NO scheduled drugs & uses alternative pain control methods) said my leg cramps at night were caused by my calcium intake (1200 mg/day). He told me to take a 2:1 ratio of Ca to Mg to block the nerve impulses caused by the calcium and it works. Have been on the Ca and Mg oxide dosages for 4 years with no nighttime cramps. However my dexa decreases 4% every 2 yrs. With your help I am planning a supplement plan to halt the decrease.

I'm reading all the posts and putting together a supplement list based on SaraD's, lilypad's, plainrose, LynnH's and other's discussions. I found a list of vitamin/mineral deficiencies in people with RA in The American College of Rheumatology. "The most commonly observed vitamin and mineral deficiencies in patients with RA, are folic acid, vitamin C, vitamin D, vitamin B6, vitamin B12, vitamin E, calcium, magnesium, zinc and selenium.(ref 4)"

The magnesium in the NOW Full Spec. Min. Caps is mg oxide & citrate and I've read in NOF entries that mg taurate is the preferred form. Does one add the mg taurate to the NOW min. caps mgO & C?
It appears the NOW B50 caps have all the B vitamins necessary. Does anyone have a suggestion on that?

I sincerely thank you all for the time and mindfulness you put into your discussions and responses.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3485651
• October 24, 2012 at 3:13 pm
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Sedona, I take both the 4 NOW CAPS daily and 400 mg of magnesium taurate, so my magnesium from supplements is a little higher than my calcium from supplements. I have never tried to figure out how much of either I get from food and water. I discovered magnesium taurate when I had atrial fibrillation in 2005 and wanted to avoid taking Warfarin. There's more info here: www.afibbers.org.

The advantage to magnesium taurate is that it doesn't cause diarrhea and is beneficial to the heart. (It pretty much stopped my atrial fibrillation.) You might start by adding one pill a day and carefully observing whether any changes are noticeable. Magnesium citrate and magnesium glycinate are also very absorbable, but too much will cause diarrhea.

Too much calcium can result in a magnesium deficiency.

You might be interested in this discussion: http://www.inspire.com/groups/national-osteoporosis-foundation/discussion/n ew-info-on-arthritis-both-osteo-and-rheumatoid/

• By sedona97
• Reply 3485744
• October 24, 2012 at 3:48 pm
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lilypads, thank you for your guidance. I am fortunate to have discovered the NOF site. Merci beaucoup.

• By j-a-n
• Reply 3485898
• October 24, 2012 at 4:58 pm
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I am so encouraged by the discussions about Stontium Bone Builder that I ordered the citrated one last night as I suffer from Osteoporosis & Kyphosis and I refuse to take anymore of the Osteoporosis drugs as the side effects make me sick. I felt like no one understood my problems until I discovered the NOF site.

• By hopetime
• Reply 3486248 · In reply to 3485277 by lilypads
• October 24, 2012 at 7:25 pm
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Yes I went to get magnesium today so will give that a go. I was wondering too, in Lara's bone book she talks about about making sure your calcuim intake is the same as strontium. I find I cannot take the full 1000u calcium as I get rheumatic type pains in my feet and I have played around with dosage - can only seem to tolerate 360mg (hydroxyapatite)(1/3 of prescribed ammt- also have taken coral calcium and same seems to happen. Blood tests show I do absorb calcium however??? So wondering whether there is now imbalance of the strontium and calcuim.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3486343
• October 24, 2012 at 7:59 pm
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Hopetime, I think you are doing the right thing by paying attention to your own responses. The numbers given are just general guidelines, and if 360 mg hydroxyapatite works for you, don't worry about numbers. I took 375 mg hydroxyapatite for several years (3 of the NOW Full Spectrum Minerals CAPS) and 2 grams of calcium ascorbate, which provided another 220 mg calcium, yet my BMD increased more than 25% in 5 years. So it must have been enough. I also took 875-1000 mg of magnesium. I don't recommend that to others, but if they have symptoms of magnesium deficiency, such as leg cramps, I suggest they increase their dosage gradually. You can also absorb magnesium through the skin, either by spraying a magnesium chloride solution on your arms or soaking your feet in epsom salts or adding either type to bath water. There is a good discussion about magnesium here:

http://www.inspire.com/groups/national-osteoporosis-foundation/discussion/m agnesium-6/

Some people say that Vitamin D gives them leg cramps. But what I think happens is that Vitamin D causes them to absorb more calcium, and that creates a magnesium deficiency that gives them leg cramps. The key is to get all these nutrients in balance for YOU. We are all different.

The book "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox" has a great chapter on the way Vitamins K2, D and A work together. Other nutrients do that, too.

Here's a post by Ted Hutchinson from an earlier discussion about magnesium:

"Unfortunately magnesium is one of those things that your body requires to make your muscles move and your brain think so if the levels of magnesium in your blood drop your body has to drag magnesium out of your skeleton. Most of your magnesium stores should be locked up in your bones and only a small fraction should actually be circulating therefore by the time the levels in your blood get low (as identified in a blood magnesium test) you will have exhausted all your long term stored reserves.

It's similar to vitamin D levels in one way and that is what is "consensus " medical opinion or regarded as "NORMAL" in medical terms is probably much less than human DNA evolved to work best with.

I think it's safer to use one of the online calculators for magnesium intake and make sure you are getting MORE THAN the amount they say is appropriate for your age/sex.

We need magnesium to enable Calcidiol (the circulating form of vitamin d) switch to the active hormonal vitamin d form Calcitriol. So If you are low in magnesium not only do the 300+ switches that magnesium governs fail to operate as DNA expects but also the whole vitamin D empire fails to function properly.

There really is no end to the importance of magnesium. If you have sufficient then providing you get bright light exposure during the day your circadian rhythm will kick in (when it gets dark at night) and your pineal gland should produce melatonin to enable you to sleep. But if your short of magnesium you melatonin will be in short supply.

Magnesium needs taking in SMALL amounts 100mg WITH FOOD, through the day (with each meal) and before bedtime.
With magnesium it's quite safe to gradually increase the amount you take until you get to the point of bowel intolerance, You start getting loose stools. At which point you can assume you've filled up your stores and you can reduce intake 100mg /daily each week untill stools become sufficiently soft to pass easily and quickly and are worryingly loose.

I've been using Doctor's Best, Magnesium, High Absorption, 100% Chelated, 240 Tablets which I've been getting from IHERB code WAB666 saves $5 initially. You may find cheaper places I've not checked.

You do have to be a bit careful you aren't ripped off with magnesium. Lots of companies use MAGNESIUM OXIDE as a bulking agent in place of the better absorbed chelated magnesium so I won't buy anything with magnesium oxide in it (only 4% is absorbed) and unless they say the percentage of magnesium oxide you can pretty well bet it's more than 60% oxide and a smaller amount of the more expensive better absorbed form.

Some people get on well with magnesium Citrate POWDER which they dissolve in water. Gets round swallowing large tablets.
You can also get magnesium chloride (Dead Sea Salts) and magnesium sulphate (Epsom Salts) in bulk bags (£7~£8 the chloride and £15 ish the Epsom salts 20kg) which you can chuck in your bathwater or footbath and soak for 20mins so you absorb it through your skin. Some people like Magnesium Oil (supersaturated magnesium chloride) which works the same way.

There is a health problem with magnesium and that is most people don't get sufficient as most only get around 60% of the RDA and the RDA is probably far too low."

• By pkenn
• Reply 3486916
• October 25, 2012 at 12:17 am
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Sedona 97 - You mentioned taking a vitamin B supplement with all the B vitamins. I was tested and my B6 was high, but my B12, low. Both my doctor and my pharmacist told me that B12 should be taken in a sublingual form. The lowest dose available was 2500u which pushed my level up too high, so I now take it three times a week.

It's important, when balancing vitamin levels, especially D, to have your levels checked on a regular basis. Both my PC and hematologist suggest every 3 months.

Pat

• By lilypads
• Reply 3487017
• October 25, 2012 at 1:27 am
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I believe Medicare will pay for testing Vitamin D every 3 months.

• By Gateman
• Reply 3487213
• October 25, 2012 at 6:48 am
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Are you sure that you can't get strontium citrate OTC? I was told that it wasn't available here in South Africa, but it is. The product here is Bone Revolution 2 marketed by The Real Thing. Have you googled "strontium citrate" ? It should give you products marketed in Australia.

• By Aussie2 (Inactive)
• Reply 3489153
• October 25, 2012 at 5:31 pm
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Ranelate has some nasties in it. I have been on Strontium Citrate for 8 months now and no problems. (Although someone else might get some problems). I get Dr's Best Strontium Citrate.

I am in Australia as well - order it from www.Biovea.com.au I order it on my Bank Debit (credit) card and takes about 10 days to get here I think it comes via India or California. Try and order before Xmas as one of my orders got lost and another took 3 weeks. Usually though the orders come with NO problems and they are very good and replaced the lost order.

• By Coveman
• Reply 3491329
• October 26, 2012 at 11:42 am
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hopetime,

I have had a leg cramps at night due to wearing
1)DIFFERENT SHOES
2) Due to EXERCISING on a treadmill.
Once I addressed these problems, my leg cramps lessened greatly.

I still have minor cramps, but I help the problem by a LOOSE LEG EXERCISE. It involves swinging one leg at a time like a pendulum while balancing my hand on a table.


Your problem might be exercise related.

• By LynH
• Reply 3493498 · In reply to 3486916 by pkenn
• October 27, 2012 at 9:12 am
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A very low vitamin B12 level, ( often with a high folate level) is also indicative of a macrocytic anaemia, the most famous being pernicious anaemia (PA) The haemoglobin level would also be low. This is easy to diagnose on a blood test.

Anyone with PA needs to have their B12 by injection, usually every 3 to 6 months. Their stomach is lacking Intrinic Factor, which is required for the absorption of B12. No amount of oral B12 would help this potentially serious condition. Another reason why we shouldn't automatically self medicate, without having a blood test to show the reason for the deficiency.

• By sedona97
• Reply 3493925 · In reply to 3493498 by LynH
• October 27, 2012 at 12:09 pm
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Lynn H, thank you for the chemical details and the warning. Before ordering the much discussed supplements, I feel I must consult a nutritionist here in Asheville, NC. I am on many meds and my OTC drugstore brand supplements which do not include K2, strontium citrate, etc. I would love to start the strontium, A, D, & K. My RA has been having a great field day with my body for several months now.
What is your opinion about beginning the strontium, A, D, & K without the nutrition consult?

• By DocLynn
• Reply 3494010
• October 27, 2012 at 12:56 pm
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Lilypads, thank you so much for the run down on Mag. I was fortunate that a colleege at the university many years ago gave me a heads up on Mag. But not so completly as you. THANKS !!!