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Community members often question what is forward flexion and are not aware or understand hip hinge and/or flatback. I think it would be helpful having a description on the community. Thank you. Sandi
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Hip Hinge & Flatback - Fitness Professionals Please Describe
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24 replies
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- By millie123
- Posted October 22, 2009 at 11:44 am
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Well, come on, professionals. Don't fall over yourselves on the way to posting. I think this is a good question.
- By sdivas
- Posted October 22, 2009 at 4:19 pm
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Hi Millie;
Sara, Karena, Sherri, and Suza all have classes, seminars, travel; etc that may take them away from the community. When time permits, the question will be answered. There are other people that can probably give a good explanation, but I'll like to hear from one of the above. Thanks. Sandi
- By MotherGoose
- Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:25 am
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Thank-you, Sandi, for trying to explain why we health professionals are not hanging over our computers 24/7. I shall try to answer this now.
Having just received the latest edition of "Boning Up", NOF's guide to prevention and treatment for the public, I looked in it for the reference to hip hingeing and keeping a straight (not flat) back while doing the activities of daily living, including exercise.
BUT: ---
No description was included in the otherwise good section on "Safe Movement and Exercises for daily Living", pages 64-90!!
I am very disappointed as a picture can be helpful in understanding what I am forced to describe in writing. (Which takes time I do not have much of -- even with my advanced years).
Hip hingeing is just that -- pretend your hips are the hinges to bend your body forward -- not your back.
Standing with arms hanging loosely at your sides; feet about a hip's width apart and pointed straight ahead;
back as tall as you can manage; and knees bent as much as you can manage --- touch one hand to keep balance on the counter, if needed.
THEN -- rock your hips and move your upper body forward-- as one piece AT THE HIPS. The motion is only in the hips. As you go forward, you'll note that you can bend your knees a bit more. Maybe you can let go of the counter and let your arms swing gently and easily from the shoulders -- an overall loosening up as you rock. This rocking movement is called hip hingeing and is key to safe body movement. It serves to lower your body so as to reach down safely or squat with subsequent protection of your spine. We PTs have already beaten the drum over and over for NO forward bending from the waist. This is how you can get into a lower cupboard or pick something off the floor. Reachers are very helpful as accessories for such tasks, too. Because balance may be impaired, it is best to touch the counter when doing such tasks, for safety. As you become more skilled at hip-hingeing (this IS an exercise, in and of itself), you will find all this much easier. Keeping the back as straight as possible while performing our daily routines also improves out posture. This also helps us "un-learn" the bad habits of slouching, of slumping our shoulders, and craning our necks, all of which stress our bones, ligaments, and weaken our extensor (stand-up) muscles, and tighten our flexor (bent over) muscles. Hip hingeing is key to good dynamic posture. It is BASIC to management of bone loss and other infirmities we suffer as we age.
Please do yourselves a favor and contact NOF (top of the page at the right) for a copy of Boning Up on Osteoporosis. It has lots of good information even if it did omit "Hip Hingeing".
I am sure that we have discussed hip hingeing in past posts -- over the past 2 years. Check further.
Lucy Buckley PT aka Mother Goose
- By Mrs_Thistlebottom
- Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:41 pm
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Just wanted to add. . . I'm not a fitness professional (nor do I play one on TV ;-) ), but I do a lot of different exercise DVDs, and what I hear over and over again from instructors is that it's important to engage (tighten, not suck in) the abdominal muscles while hinging from the hips. This increases support to the lower back.
- By sdivas
- Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:52 pm
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Thanks Lucy, we really need a visual on the community ..... which I will work on. Sandi
- By lilrayosun
- Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:29 am
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I'm not a professional either, but I thought I'd add that for those who are confused, a way to find the "hinge" is to find the spot between your hip and thigh where your leg bends -- the "crease" as it were. Put your hands on your hips with your fingertips in/on that "crease."
Now when you hinge forward, if you're hinging from the correct place, that "crease" where you've placed your fingers should get smaller as your upper body moves towards your thighs.
And I hope that isn't even more confusing.
I found this picture:
http://www.louisianaarthritisclinic.com/safetytipsthree.jpg
This flyer from a therapeutic yoga handout. If you scroll to the end, there's some pretty good pictures.
http://www.therapeuticyoga.net/Therapeutic_Yoga/Mixed_Media_files/HipHinge. pdf
There are also videos online if you just search for "hip hinge," several hits will pop up.
Best,
Raye
- By sdivas
- Posted October 24, 2009 at 3:09 pm
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Raye, thanks for taking the time to find the visuals. Also, for all: Please don't slump. No rounding of the spine. Alignment is important. Sandi
- By betterbones
- Posted October 25, 2009 at 1:49 pm
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Thank you all for the hip hinging info and pix - really helps a lot. My knee is slowly healing - tendonitis issues - and deep bending is tough - but this is something I can use to modify my movements. I wanted to mention water walking - even though it's not 'bone building' - it has strengthened my muscles in my legs amazingly well - and a good alt. cardio to do as well. Those of us who have knee issues have trouble carrying weights while walking etc... but now that my knee muscles are stronger I am closer to where I need to be.
- By SuzaFrancina
- Posted October 25, 2009 at 6:49 pm
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I read all the Comments about moving from the hip hinge and will chime in soon as I can.
FYI I never use the term "flat back." Instead, I say, "Move from the hip hinge with your spine elongated," or similar language.
I'm reading an advance copy of Dr.Loren Fishman's forthcoming book, "Yoga for Osteoporosis." I'll check how he describes moving safely from the "hip hinge."
lilrayosun's descripion of the "crease" at top of the legs is pretty good and on the right track... for stiff beginners this is easier to feel when bending forward seated on a chair (just for learning purposes)
Yes, a good visual would be most helpful!
- By MotherGoose
- Posted October 26, 2009 at 7:45 am
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Thanks, lilrayosun:
The first picture(s) are what I was looking for in the "new" edition of Boning Up.
The second group are a bit challenging for inactive folks -- at least to begin with. Not such a good idea to get down so low that your thighs are parallel to the floor -- that's bad for your knees.
Lucy Buckley PT aka Mother Goose
- By SuzaFrancina
- Posted October 26, 2009 at 7:50 am
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In my Comment above I noted that Raye's (lilrayosun's) descripion of the "crease" at top of the legs is on the right track and that for stiff beginners this is easier to feel when bending forward seated on a chair.
I looked at the photographs Raye posted from a therapeutic yoga handout. The pictures show bent-knee positions that position the body similar to when seated in a chair, only without the chair. Bending the knees (or bending forward seated in a chair) allows stiff beginners with tight hamstrings to "move" from the hip hinge.
(Thanks, Lucy Buckley, PT, aka Mother Goose, for the reminder that we have discussed hip hinging in past posts, which I'm now going to retrieve, along with a photo.)
- By Carolyn0107
- Posted October 26, 2009 at 8:05 am
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I have osteoarthritis in both of my knees and have a problem bending them, squatting down to pick up something for instance. It sure makes iit difficult keeping my back in good position!
- By SuzaFrancina
- Posted October 26, 2009 at 8:11 am
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The photo below shows a yoga student in his seventies practicing the classic yoga Triangle Pose, with the back of the body on a wall, and a chair for support. Practicing with the support of a wall and chair helps assure that the movement comes from the hip hinge. Note how the spine is elongated, chest (posture) open and that both sides of the body are equal.
http://www.suzafrancina.com/media/JHJacobs_060317_026_suza.jpg
(From Part Seven of my series on Yoga for Healthy Bones.)
Photo credit: Jim Jacobs, from the book, "The New Yoga for Healthy Aging," by Suza Francina.
- By SuzaFrancina
- Posted October 26, 2009 at 8:53 am
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To Carolyn0107,
Your Comment , "I have osteoarthritis in both of my knees and have a problem bending them... and keeping my back in a good position," is a perfect illustration of why people feel they are in an impossible situation. We need to exercise to strengthen our bones and mucles but then our joints become painful.
Alignment based yoga such as Iyengar and Anusara yoga, practiced with the help of props, addresses the twin dilemna of osteoarthritis and osteoporosis.
Yoga teaches how to safely strengthen the bones and muscles in the legs and rest of the body without causing further damage to the knees and other joints.
More to come!
- By SuzaFrancina
- Posted October 26, 2009 at 9:59 am
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To go back to Sand's original question: "what is forward flexion .... hip hinge and/or flatback."
Flexion refers to the reduction of an angle. Flexion of the spine (vertebral column) is to bend forward, ideally from the crease at the tops of the legs, refered to as the hip hinge.
The above photo of Triangle Pose ilustrates side bending (lateral flexion) or a side-ways bend of the spine.
For those with osteoporosis, osteopenia, and to prevent these conditions, it is critical that movement comes from the hip hinge, without rounding and compressing the back--especially the thoracic spine(midback), the area most at risk for fracure.
As I mentioned earlier, I do not use the term "flatback," but I assume it means the same as "lengthening the spine," verus shortening and rounding the back. (Please correct me if I'm mistaken.)
The abiliy to bend forward from the hip hinge (hip joints) is often difficult because of tight hamstring muscles (stiffness at back o the thighs). This is the main reason why "moving forward from the hip hinge," is often taught in the beginning with the knees bent. Bending the knees will not stretch the hamstring but it allows even those with stiff legs to move the pelvis up when bending forward.
Here is how I teach midlife and older beginners standing (and later seated forward flexion) from the hip hinge.
First I teach standing with the feet facing straight ahead, with posture open and spine elongated. It is critical to grasp that safe forward flexion fro the hip hinge involves the whole body. I have the student
place their feet hip-width apart, facing straight ahead (as the feet tend to splay out when bending forward)
yikes!--one of my cats just walked across the keyboard and I lost someting so better press Post...
- By SuzaFrancina
- Posted October 26, 2009 at 10:56 am
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Excuse typos above. Blame it my cats.
In addition to teaching "how" to bend from the hip hinge, I repeatedly explain "why." Any movement in which the upper body is hunched (including sitting all day wih rounded posture) can intensify the forces that result in vertebral crush factures. This is why I teach forward flexion (bending) with the hands on a wall, chair, desk, countertop, etc. Without props, most people are tempted to hunch forward to bring their upper body toward their thighs and to touch their toes when what they need to do first is lengthen/elongate the spine away from their legs.
While explaining all this I am ilustrating the correct and incorrect movement of the spine and pelvis wih my own body.
I show what the spine and pelvis looks like when I bend from the hip joint/hinge (pelvis tilts up and spine is one elongated unit with space between the discs) versus bending from the waist with pelvis pointing down and spine visibly shortened.
I have the student feel the bones (vertebrae) of my spine and then their own spine by placing their fingers right on the bones of the spine.
Then I have them stand with feet facing straight ahead, their thumbs pressing deep into the crease (the pit/soft spot under the hip bone) located at the tops of the legs. Depending on the health and flexibility of the group I may have them bend forward just enough to feel the movement of the hip joint/hinge.
(If bending side-ways as in the photo of the Triangle Pose the thumb/hand is placed at the top of the front leg). Or I ask permission to place my own hand at the top of the student's leg to help them undrstand how to move/stretch sideways from the hip joint/hinge.
I first teach forward flexion wih hands placed shoulder-distance apart and aproximately shoulder height on a wall (chairs are often too low for tall, stiff students). (Often refered to as Half-Dog Pose at the Wall) . Step feet back until spine is paralell to the floor.
Again, this helps assure the forward movement is actually from the hip joints/hinge.
I shoud add here that for students with osteoporosis and most older beginners I first stretch the backs of the legs lying down on the floor, with strap around the foot.
One more note: Learning to bend forward from the hip joints/hinge is much easier with the feet wide apart. I teach Standing Wide Forward Bend before Standing Forward Bend wth feet hip-width apart (and later, feet together.)
- By sdivas
- Posted October 26, 2009 at 12:40 pm
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Suza, thank you very much for taking the time for this helpful explanation. I'm not sure if initially I was told flatback as well as tabletop, but it gave me a visual not rounding my spine, slump or letting the tummy relax and hang/drop down/forward. Thanks Sandi
- By SuzaFrancina
- Posted October 27, 2009 at 4:19 am
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You're welcome Sandi.
Speaking of table tops, I also have students stand close to a sturdy table with a yoga mat and folded blanket on top. Place your hands on the table and bend forward over the table, resting the whole upper body on the table top.
The top of the table/stack of blankets should be level with the tops of the legs (hip hinge/joint). If the table is too low for ones height, place more folded blankets on top. The folded blankets can be higher than the hip joints/hinge, but should not be lower. (A high bed also works.) Once the blankets are the right height for your height and flexibility, it's very relaxing to bend forward supported by the table and blankets.
(There's a photo of this position in "Back Care Basics," by Mary Pullig Schtaz, MD. You can look inside the book on amazon.com--excellent guidance on yoga for osteoporosis.)
- By SequoiaHealth
- Posted October 28, 2009 at 10:20 pm
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Not much I can add here except hamstring flexibility is very importaant to be able to pull off these two moves/positions correctly and safely.
Woody
- By petplant
- Posted October 29, 2009 at 10:32 am
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I found an article with a drawing/picture of the correct (hip hinge) and incorrect way to bend:
JOURNAL OF BODYWORK AND MOVEMENT THERAPIES JULY 2003, 7(3):P.151-152. "The hip hinge" - Author: Craig Liebenson.
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