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Drugs versus the Natural Way

AussieLass
3 Recommendations

Came across a thought provoking video which I found both disturbing and compelling. Would really like to share it with you. Was researching minerals when I found it.
Don't be misled by the wording in the address. Nothing to do with anxiety or panic attacks.
It's worth while watching right through because it talks about the "natural way" towards the end so do it when you find the time.
Here it is: http://www.understand-andcure-anxietyattacks-panicattacks-depression.com/ph armaceutical-greed.html

Explore topics in this discussion:

Exercise High cholesterol Surgery Acid reflux Bruises Anxiety Niacin Menopause Fibromyalgia Stress Arrhythmia Boniva Fatty liver Fractures Anemia Actonel Weakness Cancer Osteopenia Progesterone Osteoporosis Acupuncture Warfarin Folic acid Cortisol Arthritis Alendronate Fosamax Pain Memory Osteomalacia Bone cancer Depression

70 replies

BarbaraDeLu

excellent video - i scrolled it to the natural area and watched from there because it is quite long and it just confirms for me that my life will be better without taking alendronate for my osteoporosis, I will move forward with my plan for a more natural cure.
thanks for sharing the video and enlightening me further !!

AussieLass

Hi BarbaraDeLu,
Thanks for sharing your reactions to the video.
When we are ill we expect and trust that our doctor will show us the path to take and, if necessary, provide us with the appropriate medication - a medication that will not do more harm than good!
This video shows that this has not always been the case. Drugs have been passed when they should not have been. Pharmaceutical companies have been able to exert their influence in inappropriate ways. Overworked and over pressured doctors have been steered into the quick fix solutions. Recipe for disaster, as history has shown with its a long list of victims.
The video questions the wisdom of quick fix solutions that treat symptoms and not the causes of illness. It shows us that this happens too often.
In our case the question should be WHY do we have osteoporosis? Instead, it's which medication will remove the symptoms.
My own doctor's response to my diagnosis ( as in the video) was to hand me two medications to trial.
There was never going to be any assessment of my diet or mineral levels or anything else. I am post menopausal so therefore I have osteoporosis. But why do 2 out of 3 postmenopausal women NOT get osteoporosis. Why am I different? Why are we different? This is where I am at now.
Since my diagnosis I have been researching in all directions to find the best possible answers to lots of questions.
The choices the doctor gave me were to take alendronate or strontium ranelate (under the brand name of Protos). I figured that I should do something in the short term to protect myself from further damage while I researched the best possible solution.
When talking to a medical friend I was told that the medications for osteoporosis were pretty rugged. I wanted to steer away from biphosphonates so I chose to take the Protos trial pack.
Meantime, I set about researching the side effects of the Protos. Most of that journey is discussed under the discussion "strontum ranelate and related products".
I also set about researching the effect of hormonal loss on the body's ability to utilise calcium, the necessity for the correct mineral balances in the body, the list of foods and supplements that give the best possible results for our bone health and the part exercise plays - and vibration- in increasing bone density. I also looked at some of the things to avoid eating or drinking and physical movements to avoid. I read the contributions on this site which helped direct me to further research.
Each time I visited my doctor, it was a battle to get her to believe that we should look beyond the medication. Finally I was able to print out and take to her a doctor's recommendation to other doctors concerning vitamin D and the fact that this doctor found a deficiency of vitamin D in 95% of his patients with osteoporotic fractures.
To cut a long story short (too late I know),
I pushed for all the tests, having won some footing here, but have come up with normal in every case! All results are within the appropriate boundaries. My doctor is feeling smug.
My doctor, the person who performed my bone densitometry and my medical friend(gynacologist) tell me that diet and exercise alone won't do it. But, I say to my doctor, there are those who have achieved positive results with diet and exercise alone. (Today) she says we are all different. Can you afford to take this chance? Fractures in later life have serious consequences for one's well being.
I am not fully convinced. However, if I need to continue taking medication as I am now, it will be strontium. In my humble opinion, it's the safest place (for me) to be while I explore and finding such a place has been my first priority.
Meantime, I am taking my test results to a naturopath tomorrow morning and I am sending a hair sample to a lab for analysis.
So, still looking for answers to my own condition ( other than hormonal levels) in order to find direction. Thought I should share this with you BarbaraDeLu. Good luck with your own research!
Would appreciate ANY feedback out there on similar or dissimilar thoughts/strategies, results etc. There are too few places where alternatives are explored, or given any credence. No easy prescriptions. Just the knowledge that a solution exists. Sorry this has been sooo long!

sylvia6789

Hi AussieLass,

It's an alarming video. It's long, but worth it. Thank you!

To get better via the "natural way", you may want to check into Osteodenx, I started taking it a month ago. In addition, I am taking vitamins and minerals, as well as changing my diet. Just need to incorporate the exercise. I believe that my bones will improve.

Best regards,
Sylvia

AussieLass

Hi Sylvia,
Thanks for your reply. Sorry for delay. Have been travelling and away from my computer. I looked up osteodenx. Was interesting to find a video about it. So many things out there to try.
Another one is "Bone Strength" by Dr Garber which I read about on this site. Some members are not sure whether it's 'snake oil' or not!
How are you finding the osteodenx? No reactions?
Am looking for the right exercises as well at the moment to try to create a program for myself.
Good luck with your strategy. Hope it works well for you.

AussieLass

Hi FredLaredo,

Wow! That result with Osteodenx seems remarkable. Am I to assume osteodenx has been available for some time now? How long was your friend using this to achieve such results?

Re the video. I think we all need to be aware of what forces may influence the decisions regarding the safety and promoted use of prescription medications. We need to be proactive in researching our options and familiarising ourselves with what is actually happening out there.
Gone are the days of blind trust!
It IS heartening that courageous individuals stand up against the current and shout the truth.

This site is wonderful because it brings so much to the table. So many pairs of eyes researching down different alley ways! Everyone with something of value to contribute.

Finding consistent results is the challenge. What do we accept as fact and what do we hold in abeyance?

Even some of the central issues are conflicted eg amount of calcium required versus amount that it is safe to consume.

One thing's to be said. Keeps the brain active so we maybe on to a cure for Alzheimer's if not osteoporosis?!

Thanks FredLaredo. Please keep us posted on your own results. Do you have the links for those clinical studies perchance?

AussieLass

Thanks FredLaredo. Off to look at that site now. Really interested to see those scores when you have them.

Youngbones

Hi Aussielass and FredLaredo,

I've just had a quick look at that Osteodenx website. They don't give much away about what is in the product but the main ingredient appears to be Lactoferrin. I have been taking Lactoferrin supplementation for about a month now after reading about its effects on the bones of mice. It appears to both suppress bone resorption and is also anabolic (stimulates bone growth) and the effects were significant according to the following study:


http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/296/6/E1281

This URL is only for the abstract of the study but I was able to track down the full article because I have access to a medical library in a hospital. Even though this study is only on mice the results were so impressive (and lactoferrin is shown to have a host of positive effects on the human immune system) that I have decided to go ahead and take it while I wait for human studies to be completed.

The downside is Lactoferrin is quite expensive. If I were to take as much as the mice in this study as a proportion of my daily food intake I would probably need to take at least 5000mg a day (about $1000 worth a month)! I am hoping that less (about) 400mg a day ($100 a month) which is what I'm taking might still have a positive effect. I guess I'll find out at my next DEXA scan in 6 months!

So the fact that there are no human studies yet would indicate that Osteodenx is probably a product that is not evidence based as yet. This would explain why their website is so big on claims and testimonials but sparse on details and research results!

I'd be interested to hear what others know about this topic.

Regards,

Youngbones

AussieLass

Hi Youngbones,

Interesting to read about that, thank you. Lactoferrin has been mentioned to me before on this site. Was puzzling about that one then.

It mentions in the following link I think, that to become patented, a synthetic form will have to be made. Osteodenx must be an extended form perhaps?

http://www.osteopenia3.com/Lactoferrin-Osteopenia-Osteoporosis.html

I notice that lactoferrin inhibits osteoclast production like the biphosphonates and have wondered whether the recycling of bone ie building plus breakdown cycle may be, in the long term, necessary for good quality bone formation and strength.

An interesting one to ponder on. Others may know more.

Youngbones

Hi Aussielass,

Re: your (very good) question about inhibition of osteoclast production with lactoferrin and the possible necessary role of bone breakdown to maintain quality bone. I also find it alarming that biphosphonates suppress resorption to such an extent that bone may end up being more brittle in the long run.

My take on lactoferrin is that many natural substances seem to suppress bone resorption (e.g., prunes, onions, sage) not to mention one's own endogenous estrogen (premenopause), to name a few. Therefore I don't think this must always be a bad thing. There is probably a vast difference between the mechanism that a man-made pharmaceutical uses to inhibit osteoclasts versus the way natural foods and substances might bring this process about.

So I'm not that worried about it with lactoferrin. There seems to be a vast array of research out there which has nothing but positive things to say about its effects on health generally, especially the immune system which seems to be intimately connected to bone health. And unlike the biphosphonates, lactoferrin is also simultaneously building new bone. Seems like a more wholistic and synergistic effect is taking place here than any drug is capable of bringing about.

At the end of the day, I'd rather take my chances with lactoferrin and other natural substances than any of the major pharmaceutical osteoporosis treatments currently available.

Cheers,

Youngbones
I

AussieLass

Hi Youngbones,

Your posting is really interesting. Research supports what you say re biphosphonates. Why this isn't given more weight in their evaluation is beyond me.

Prunes have been mentioned in another posting somewhere as having a possible effect on a particular Dexa result and it was something I was going to investigate further. Onions and sage too? Fascinating.

I hear what you are saying about natural substances. The tricky thing is quantity. Lactoferrin occurs naturally in the body in very low quantities. Knowing the limit is the hard thing isn't it?
It does sound promising though. Haven't seen anything negative about it so far.

Here is a pubmedcentral article you may not have come across re lactoferrin. I found it interesting.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1183439&tool=pmce ntrez

May I ask, did you continue with strontium citrate? Also, re diet and exercise, what concessions have you made there? ( if you wouldn't mind sharing this).

I would be most interested to know how you go in the Dexa scan in 6 months. I really hope it goes well for you!

millie123

Hi Aussie Lass: May I ask what your vitamin D levels were when you were tested? You say they were "normal." Could it be that your doctors and/or labs are reluctant to embrace the new higher recommendations for D levels? My D levels were "normal" too, but my doctor wanted them up at least in the high 40 ng level. Vitamin D Council recommends keeping them between 50 and 80 ng. Also, Nathji has started a Lactoferrin discussion today. You might like to join in.

sylvia6789

Hi Aussielass,

I've only begun to take the Osteodenx daily, approx. a month ago. The previous month, I only took it whenever, skipping days on-and-off.

I also started to take the Lactoferrin gold, but not regularly.

In addition, I've been drinking a glass of Jade Greenzymes to help with the acid/alkaline stability, almost every morning.

No bad side effects. I feel very healthy. However, I was never really sick, just was told to do something to improve my bones, after a DEXA showing Osteopenia.

What I was told was to take bisphosphonates. I did that, standing up for an hour, etc. for a few weekly dose. The drug gave me acid reflux and leg cramps. So, I stopped and switch to the "natural" method.

I will not have my next DEXA for another year and a half. But, I think I am doing the right things to improve my bones.

Hope that you will find what you believe is right for you.

Best regards,
Sylvia ps. Pls let me know if you need more details.

AussieLass

Hi Millie123,

Thank you for your interest and concern! The range the lab worked with was 50 -150 nmol/L. My score came in at 60 nmol/L.

The lab states new reference limits as of 24/9/2008:
Mild deficiency 25-50 nmol/L
Moderate deficiency: 12.5 - 25 nmol/L
Severe deficiency: less than 12.5 nmol/L

I see your score is ng/mL and mine is nmol/L. (nanograms per milliliter cf nanomoles per liter)

20ng/mL = 50nmol/L (40%)

My score is then 24ng/mL
(40% of my 60nmol/L)
Your doctor is requiring 40 ng/ML which equates to 100nmol/L.
My score is 60 % of your doctor's recommendation. Interesting.

Translating my lab's normal range to your figures:

20ng/mL - 60ng/mL


I was dissatisfied with my doctor's response to the idea of exploring reasons for my diagnosis ( such as vitamin and mineral deficiencies, influence of high stress levels, too much dietary protein) so I went to a naturopath.

Here is a story in itself which I won't bore you with. End result, she felt that I needed to increase my vitamin D levels (among other things).

I am awaiting the results of a hair analysis before embarking on marked changes. Meantime I am taking 500iu of Vitamin D ( and 600mg of calcium).

Thanks Millie123, you made me think through those comparisons.

Yes the lactoferrin looks really promising.
A naturally occuring product. There are a few beauties out there which I am researching. When I see many references with supporting studies pointing the one way, I take notice. Lactoferrin is one of them.

AussieLass

Hi Sylvia6789,

Thanks for those details. May I ask what does the Lactoferrin Gold contain, (from reference to the box or packet) ie is there an additive to the basic lactoferrin?

Also, what quantities are recommended ?
Youngbones, you'll be interested in this.

Re the Jade Greenzymes that you take for stomach PH levels, how does it work I wonder? Your stomach may be in 3 possible conditions: too acid, too alkaline, or 'normal'. How can the product be applicable in all cases? Fascinating.

I worry about my protein levels. And yet protein is essential to the body's health.
I'd hate to be strictly vegetarian. I am trying to cut down on meat eggs fish and dairy and upping veggies. Sea vegetables sound fascinating so I have been searching there as well.

My blood phosphorous levels were at the exact top of the recommended range and my total protein was towards the top of the range as well. I think that's telling me something.

Sylvia, I am glad you are away from the biphosphonates. Apart from the sometimes horrendous side effects, they are anti resorptive. This sound good but can lead to increased mineralisation and brittleness in the long term ( = more fractures). I do believe that this applies to every one of them, but I may stand corrected. There is a study done to refer to. I found it in the American pubmed site.

I am using strontium because it has a duel effect.( Foods high in strontium are fish, brazil nuts, parsley, lettuce, kale, wholegrains and molasses. Dr Susan Brown says dietary intake is thought to vary from 1mg to more than 10 mg. I take a lot more).

Good luck with your supplements. Whatever you do, I think you should try to do it regularly. Don't lose as much bone as I have! I loved being energetic and doing strenuous tasks. Now I am afraid of my body's limitations. It won't defeat me though.

Youngbones

Hi Aussielass,

Thanks for the article reference - it sounds like further research is planned to go ahead into lactoferrin which is good.

Re: Strontium Citrate. I know I mentioned to you how to get hold of it for us Aussies who can't buy it here. Although I have purchased it over the internet I have decided to hold off on taking it for a while and try other methods first. If I have significant bone loss at my next scan I will start taking it for sure in preference to any pharmaceutical options currently available. However I am (slightly) wary of Strontium just because of its pattern of being incorporated into the bone and making the bone heavier, denser, than calcium does. This may not be a bad thing but who really knows at this stage? Not enough long term research.

My current T scores are -2.7 spine, and -1.4 hip at 47 years of age and perimenopausal which means my most rapid bone loss years are upon me, oh goody! My daily regime is:
2 x 10 mins daily on the Juvent Vibration machine. Calcium Citrate (with trace minerals) 700mg daily + 1000IU Vit D
Supplemental magnesium and potassium citrate.
8-10 servings of veg and 5 fruit (alkaline/acid ratio)(lots of kale)
40g serving of natto for vitk2 and isoflavones.
450mg lactoferrin
Prunes, onions and sage tea.
Almost no grains, no dairy (apart from kefir and yoghurt), and moderate amounts of lean organic chicken or wild kangaroo meat and oily fish, nuts, seeds, olive oil etc to get the omega balance right.

That's about it plus weekly treatment with acupuncture to balance my hormones! We'll see what happens. Oh of course I have commenced a resistance exercise program and walk daily but I have exercised well for decades - so much for that preventing bone loss!

Given I am at the rapid bone loss stage of up to 3% per annum if I manage not to go backwards at my next Dexa Scan I'll be happy. I'll keep you posted.

Regards,

Youngbones,

sylvia6789

Hi Aussielass,

I replied to Priya's discussion on Lactiferring yesterday as follows:

" On the Lactoferrin Gold 1.8 packet, it has a table stating the following:

Lactoferrin ____________ 60 mg
Tumeric root extract _____ 30 mg
Fructooligosaccharides ___ 50 mg

I also listed Vitamin A (as beta carotene) at 1910 IU

Received this dietary supplement a couple of weeks ago. The tablets are nice and small. Took a few (i.e. one per day), and have no bad side effects. "

Aussielass, I am supposed to take Osteodenx at dinner, and the Lactoferring Gold earlier in the day. Just one of each has been my plan. As I recalled, my consultant and Dr. Naidu (in his video) said that you can take more, like 2 or even 3 of the Osteodenx, if needed, for correction purposes.

As for the Jade Greenzymes, I think that I need it since I eat a lot of meat and acid food (ref. http://www.ajpip.com/resources/acid_food_list.htm) and not so much alkaline food (ref. http://www.ajpip.com/resources/alkaline_food_list.htm)

Since you seem to eat a lot of good alkaline food, you most likely don't need the Jade Greenzymes. It's a powder extracted from the leaves of young barley grass. Mixing it with water creates a drink which tastes like spinach.

btw, you mentioned some results in your post, but I am not familiar with them, e.g. 60 nmol/L, etc. Did you do a DEXA? Are your T-scores o.k.? Are you diagnosed as Osteopenia or Osteoporosis? Sorry for the silly questions. I am new in this issue.

And, please be sure to take the correct dosage of strontium and not too much.

Take care and I wish you better health,
Sylvia

millie123

AussieLass: I ordered a book two days ago from amazon.com called THE VITAMIN D CURE. I think you would enjoy it. Has lots of charts and graphs and tables. The author is a rheumatologist up in Michigan. There are 34 pages of references to medical studies and articles on nutrition. This is not a book about osteoporosis per se. It is a book about how vitamin D works and the regulatory activity it has on many bodily activities. He has worked out a formula of D supplementation based on body weight, seasons, etc. If you tested blood score translates to 24 ng, you would be considered deficient. He recommends that levels be between 50 and 70 ng for optimal health (including bones.) He says that you would need, daily, a supplement of so many IU (international units) of D to raise your levels per pound of body weight.Therefore to get you up to an IDEAL D LEVEL from a score of around 25ng, he would aim for 60ng level and put you on 26 IU per pound of body weight daily. He does not buy into the one size fits all regimen.
Don't know if you're interested in that information or not, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

sylvia6789

Hi Aussielass,

Sorry for the misspelling in my reply last night. I meant to say Priya's discussion on "Lactoferrin . . ."

Younbones has provided excellent information. Please check her reply:

http://www.inspire.com/groups/national-osteoporosis-foundation/discussion/l actoferrn-gold-improves-bone-health-dramatically/?reply_sort=desc#replies

Best regards,
Sylvia

AussieLass

Thank you Youngbones, you appear to have put a lot of thought into your plan and it looks promising. Thanks for the detail.

I understand your concerns about the strontium. It's a niggle to me too. I am 3 to 4 weeks since diagnosis so am doing something rather than nothing while I explore and gather other info on my body status ( T score for my bones are in the -3's ! Showed up on a normal X Ray!! )
When I started the strontium it looked like the least harmful of available medications.
Because it occurs naturally in the body and in the food we eat and also because of its much earlier history I felt a little safer with the idea.

I am asking myself whether the fact that something occurs naturally in the body ( and has a good impact on bone quality) it is a good (safe) reason for taking it in amounts in excess of the body's natural limits.

The body is a complex system where all things have a balance ( in a healthy system). What are the repurcussions of exceeding the amounts as with strontium or, eg with lactoferrin where the body naturally produces larger amounts in response to infection. Would these larger amounts key in a response in the body in another direction : an unwanted response? That is, "hey body( talking to itself) we must have an infection to fight let's get the army" What chain reactions are possible?

I am talking out of ignorance here and just throwing this out there, as I truly do not know if this is a legitimate concern or not. There are so many unknowns. And my understanding of lactoferrin is only beginning. We must find solutions and take calculated risks I guess, weighing up the benefits with the downsides. We can't sit on our hands and say it's all too risky! We'd get nowhere.

My own strategy is that I hope to find a reason why I am in this predicament and to let that suggest the main thrust of a solution for me. There has to be a reason or combination of defineable factors. (hormone levels are an obvious one but two in three post menopausal women skate through. Why?)
I don't know whether this is naively simplistic and onerously time consuming, but I'm on that road for now.

My healthy active 80 year old mother said to me, "Don't you dare let this ruin your life for you" by which she meant, don't let this diagnosis become an obsession. I'm trying to find a middle line where life is enjoyable while I am doing the best that I can for my health. I'm in the research phase I tell myself!

I read your other posts in the Lactoferrin discussion. Interesting too, thank you.

sylvia6789

Hi AussieLass,

I agree with your mother. We must not let this ruin our lives. After being diagnosed with Osteopenia, I was devastated. It became an obsession for the first two months, while I was taking Fosamax. Now, after 4 months, I am still searching and learning, but have "calmed down" significantly.

I am sorry that your T-score is in the -3's. It's good that we have this Inspire team to help us get healthy.

My Mom always told me ..... follow the "Golden Mean". It's a Confucius doctrine for us to do things in moderation. I am trying my best to follow this advice.

Let's keep in touch. May you achieve good health soon,

<3 Sylvia

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