Confused about the Calcium

• By Little-Sparrow
• Reply 3501062
• October 30, 2012 at 9:46 am
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I just wanted to add, that if you are purchasing a calcium supplement, take note of the amount of "elemental" calcium. That's the amount that you should be interested in. When I was first diagnosed with low bone density (osteopaenia) I was told to have a daily intake of 1,200 mg of "elemental calcium" every day (plus vitamin D of course).

I've taken both calcium carbonate and calcium citrate in the past. I took calcium carbonate with a meal, whereas calcium citrate may be taken without any food.

On the advice from one of my endocrinologists (I've seen 2), I've made the switch from primarily getting my calcium from supplements to getting it naturally. For me, making this adjustment was not difficult since I'm a "dairy junkie". In addition to eating cheeses and yogurt every day, I now also have a tall glass of 1% milk with every meal. The bonus for me is that I've actually gained a few pounds which is truly a miracle and a very, very welcome bonus. :)

• By Cinderfella
• Reply 3501301
• October 30, 2012 at 11:41 am
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Okay, thanks so much dexaguru and little sparrow. It makes so much more sense to me now. I thought I was aiming for "absorbing" 1,200 mg per day and wondering how that was possible if only a small quantity of it actually gets taken in. I can probably cut back on the pills then. I think I'm getting enough via dietary and then supplementing it with one calcium pill per day and not four.

My next question would be about the vitamin D. I was vitamin D deficient. My reading in the spring was only 19. I have since brought that up to 32, which I'm told is just within normal limits. I'm wondering how much higher I should try to bring that up. I'm betting that to be just within the normal range probably isn't good enough for what I'm trying to do. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Thanks so much.....

• By lilypads
• Reply 3501583
• October 30, 2012 at 1:14 pm
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Calcium is only one of the seven minerals needed for strong bones. The others are magnesium, manganese, boron, zinc, selenium, and iodine. Five vitamins are also needed: A, B, C, D, and K2.

You can learn about all of them (except Vitamin A) in Lara Pizzorno's excellent and inexpensive book, "Your Bones."

All of the minerals are provided in NOW Full Spectrum Minerals CAPS (not tablets).

• By reddwarf
• Reply 3501599
• October 30, 2012 at 1:21 pm
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The calcium issue is complex, I read that the body suppresses vitamin D if there is too much calcium in the system (hyper calcaemia) to stop over absorbtion). Some people's osteoporosis is caused by hyper calcaemia . I would be very careful with calcium supplements, try to get enough through diet.

Annoying Vit D supplements often have calcium included, my GP prescribed one without calcium for me (in the UK).

• By Cinderfella
• Reply 3501795
• October 30, 2012 at 2:13 pm
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I have the Your Bones book on order. Hopefully, it will be here in a day or two. Thanks so much everyone for posting.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3501936
• October 30, 2012 at 2:55 pm
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My understanding is that bone is about 30% collagen. It's the collagen that provides much of bone's tensile strength and prevents fractures, though it does not show up on DEXA scans. Vitamin K2 as MK4 puts calcium into bones instead of joints and arteries, and also reduces fracture risk by increasing collagen. You can read more here:

http://www.lmreview.com/articles/view/Vitamin-K2-Essential-for-Prevention-o f-Age-Associated-Chronic-Disease/

http://www.dentalaegis.com/cced/2011/10/bridging-the-gap-between-osteoporos is-and-osteonecrosis-of-the-jaw-preventing-and-treating-bronj-with-mk4

• By Jinn
• Reply 3502110
• October 30, 2012 at 3:49 pm
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My endo told me that I should aim to have my Vit D levels over 70.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3502201
• October 30, 2012 at 4:18 pm
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Is that 70 ng/mL? If so, you don't want to go over 80. If it's nmol, that's very low, only 28.

Thanks to Faylou, here's how to convert:

ng/ml convert to nmol/l multiply by 2.5

nmol/l to ng/ml divide by 2.5

ie: 60 ngml would be 2.496 x 60 = 150 nmol/l

so your 83.9 nmol/l = 33.5 ng/ml (83.9/2.5)

hope that helps

Here's Dr. Gominak's video that explains the functrion of Vitamin D brilliantly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=h7cbBB1c0IM&feature=endscreen

• By Bonesatthebeach
• Reply 3503026
• October 30, 2012 at 9:32 pm
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We have to eat to live anyway, so let's get our vitamin A B C D & K from food. It's the natural way....

-drink milk [ vit A + D, and some B vitamins too---also calcium & protein]
-add some of those dark green veggies & herbs for vit K and orange, kiwi, strawberries, sweet peppers etc for vit C and get a bonus of some antioxidents and probably some of those trace minerals,too
-for other food sources of vit D add some fatty fish, egg yolks, and fortified foods

Some foods may have more of certain nutrients than others, but most offer more than a solo nutrient. I enjoy the taste and flavor of food over expensive and tasteless but costly supplements. Cooking, trying new recipes, growing veggies & herbs is also a great activity that keeps us using those muscles and bones....

• By PatriciaF
• Reply 3503051
• October 30, 2012 at 9:39 pm
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Reddwarf, let me just clarify if I understand correctly. Vitamin D suppression can occur, not when there is too much
calcium in the body, but when there is too much calcium in the blood. This condition is very undesirable for most of
the organs and should be corrected. However, it does not happen as a result of excess dietary calcium. It happens
most often because of a malfunction of one of two hormones that control the distribution of calcium within the body,
parathyroid hormone or the vitamin D hormone. In over 99% of cases of hyper calcemia, one or more of the parathyroid
glands is producing too much PTH hormone, that causes calcium to be leached out of the bones into the blood. On the
other hand, most excess dietary calcium will eventually end up in the urine to be excreted from the body.

• By Dogbone
• Reply 3503552
• October 31, 2012 at 2:46 am
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It's never been clear to me if eating dairy gets you strong bones. It probably depends on YOU, how your body handles it. So many on this blog drank tons of milk and still got OP.

• By seacoral
• Reply 3503751
• October 31, 2012 at 8:08 am
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CInderfella,
It might be worth analyzing your diet for several days to see what your actual calcium intake is. Be aware that in Europe the recommended amounts are lower than in the US... I aim for 800 mg per day of calcium, from food. This includes one or two servings of cheese, and 3 glasses of mineral water ( Gerolsteiner has 80 mg of calcium per cup... but, alas, it is pricey).
For a few years now I have been making "bone broth" .. saving chicken carcasses or bones in the freezer and then soaking them in water with added vinegar and simmering with herbs etc. all day. I try to drink some of this several times per week. I think there are lots of minerals in this.
In past analysis of my diet, my intake of magnesium, boron and silica came up low. I add those in as supplements. ( I cannot digest multi vitamins) I also try to eat some sea vegetables (seaweed) a few times a week, for the iodine. I eat natto 4 or 5 times per week, for the Vit K2.. , and leafy greens from my garden on a daily basis.

• By sedona97
• Reply 3504075
• October 31, 2012 at 11:19 am
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seacoral, would you be so kind as to give us the recipe for your bone broth?
Being a newbie to the NOF and trying to understand the chemistry behind all the vitamins and minerals we need, I'm overwhelmed. I read the two articles lilypads recommended. Question should I take MK4 and MK7? The BRONJ treatment with MK4 is absolutely compelling. I will begin drinking more milk, but I am limited in amount of caloric intake. I have many spinal issues, crippling RA which make great activity impossible. I ride a stationary bike and do 1 1/2 hrs of physical therapy exercises each day.
How much Vitamin A is necessary?
Should I be taking a UCII supplement? If so which is recommended, please?

I am so appreciative of your wise guidance.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3504268
• October 31, 2012 at 12:41 pm
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I also make bone broths, with free-range chicken bones, and also (separately) free-range beef bones. I put the bones in a 2 gallon stock pot, add about a half cup of apple cider vinegar to leach out the minerals, and cook them all day. I use the stock for soups and stews. I drink the chicken broth if I get a cold.

The broths contain gelatin as well as minerals. Gelatin may be helpful for arthritis (I was told that drinking a packet of Knox gelatin dissolved in water daily was an effective treatment. However, I never tried it and I no longer have arthritis.)

I think it's worth trying the UC II, and maybe the Knox gelatin too. What do you have to lose?

• By seacoral
• Reply 3504414
• October 31, 2012 at 2:07 pm
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I am fortunate to have a local organic farmer that I buy all chicken and meat from, so have these wonderful bones to make soup with. I have the butcher give me the bones from the meat..I started out following recipes from Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon ( recipe on p.122) ,but vary it so it's a little different each time. I should have clarified that I cook bones separately ( beef from lamb from chicken).. Here's for beef... Put bones in large pot, ( mine holds 16 quarts) cover with water and add about 1/2 cup apple cider vinegar.Soak for about an hour....meanwhile put bones with meat on them in the oven @ 350 to roast till they turn brown. Add this ALL, including fat and brown bits..back into the pot. I add some vegetables, but since I eat low carb I don't put in a lot of carrot or onion... use celery or a bit of dried seaweed, some shallots along with whatever herbs I have available from garden or dried ( sage, thyme, rosemary, oregano, etc). Dump it all in. Bring to a boil and skim scum off top . Simmer..at least 8 hours sometimes 24 hours. Let cool, then strain out everything . Refrigerate what's left then skim off the fat that congeals. ( for chicken I leave some of the fat in). Taste it.. might need to boil down a little more. I put this in freezer jars .
For chicken broth I take my saved up carcasses from the freezer and cover with water and 1/2 c cider vinegar and let soak an hour. Add vegetables and herbs.. Boil, remove scum and simmer. The rest is the same as for beef..
What you want to see is gelatinous soup when it's been refrigerated..

• By lilypads
• Reply 3515090
• November 4, 2012 at 4:04 pm
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Windblown, I make my chicken soup with raw skin and bones. Every time I buy a chicken, I save the back, the neck, the wing tips, and the giblets. I bone out the breasts and freeze those separately and add the breast bones to the soup package. Then when I have enough for a pot of soup, I load up the pot with the bones, fill it with water, and add about half a cup of apple cider vinegar and cook it all day. When it's done I freeze it in pinta nd quart jars (be sure to leave 1 inch headroom, or the jars will break).

That makes the base for great soups with vegetables and chicken that hasn't been cooked til it falls apart. Or I just heat it up and drink plain when I have a cold.

I know people also make soups with cooked chicken and turkey carcases, but I seldom have those, so I've not done it. I don't know what effect roasting has on the calcium and other nutrients in bones--does anybody know? I think one test of a good broth is whether it jells. Put it in a jar in the fridge overnight and ideally, it should have the consistency of jello in the morning. Sally Fallon explains the benefits of gelatin in her great book "Nourishing Traditions." It's especially good for digestion, which is no doubt why my grandmother always started a meal with a cup of homemade beef broth (topped with unsweetened real whipped cream).

I also make bone broth with free-range beef bones, which I buy, and I use that as a base for beef stews of various kinds.

After a day of cooking with vinegar, the beef bones are porous, just like bones with osteoporosis. The chicken bones are soft, won't splinter, and I give them to my neighbor for her dog, who loves this "Bonehead stew."

I also save the fat (schmaltz) and freeze it. It's great for frying chicken, livers, sausages, whatever. Because it's saturated, it does not break down into trans fats the way many vegetable oils do.