Calcium

• By lilypads
• Reply 3361283
• September 9, 2012 at 3:26 pm
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I use NOW Full Spectrum Minerals CAPS, 4 of which contain 500 mg calcium as hydroxyapatite (bone meal). They also contain all the other minerals needed for strong bones. On p. 167 of "Your Bones," hydroxyapatite is discussed. Since I do not use dairy products owing to allergy, all my calcium comes from these CAPS and 22 mg of calcium from my NOW Buffered Vitamin C, which is calcium ascorbate.

I know it is well absorbed because I increased my bone density more than 25% in 5 years using these CAPS, 680 mg strontium citrate, and about 5000 iu Vitamin D.

• By Yutzy
• Reply 3361415
• September 9, 2012 at 4:47 pm
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Thanks for the info. I did find calcium from plant bases source that I am going to try, it includes the D3 and K2. One of the formulas in that book had a calcium and strontium along with other minerals supplement. Here again is contradiction...not taking calcium at the same time as strontium! No wonder I'm confused. I am going with two separate supplements. Thanks again for input!

• By thewiseoldowl
• Reply 3362235
• September 9, 2012 at 10:35 pm
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If you are looking at using Microcrystalline Hydroxyapatite MCHA most is from beef bones but there is one from Harvested Hard Antler from deer. This has as well as the minerals a powerful bioactive that increases bone strength. Check out NUZEACAL on the internet.

• By LynH
• Reply 3363185 · In reply to 3362303 by dxaguru
• September 10, 2012 at 10:21 am
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An other alternative is eat more foods containing calcium.

I've started having more goats milk yogurt and milk, which I have been told is less acidic than cows milk products. I also eat wheat free bread which again is quite high in calcium, depending on the brand. Although the taste isn't as nice as proper bread.

I find I can achieve my daily 1200mg to 1500mg of calcium mainly from food and don't need to take much calcium supplement, infact some days I don't take any.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3364144
• September 10, 2012 at 3:40 pm
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I see a typo in my post above. I get 220 mg of calcium from my Buffered Vitamin C , not 22 mg.

I don't have to wonder about what type of calcium works, since I've taken the same kind for 6-7 years and it WORKED--NOW Full Spectrum Minerals CAPS, containing 500 mg daily of hydroxyapatite. It's bovine sourced from New Zealand. Also very inexpensive, about $15 for 240 caps or about 26 cents a day, not just for calcium but for ALL the minerals needed for strong bones. Those caps, plus strontium citrate, & 4000 iu Vitamin D have brought my bones back to normal in 5 years--an increase of more than 25%. I don't need anything fancy or exotic. But I have been very consistent about taking them.

I think an overemphasis on calcium and the type of calcium can distract people from absorbing the fact that there are MANY necessary minerals--magnesium, manganese, zinc, boron, selenium, & iodine. Look for a supplement that has ALL of them.

• By thewiseoldowl
• Reply 3364448
• September 10, 2012 at 5:29 pm
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The best way to get calcium almost everyone agrees is by diet. However when diet for whatever reason is a little low in calcium (or even other minerals) we may need a "dietary supplement". However it is important with calcium not to take too much at any one dose and not to over supplement. There have been three meta studies published by reputable scientists in the last 18 months showing that high spikes in blood calcium can lead to a significant increase in mortality from heart attack or stroke. These studies were all with older people and the general recommendation was that older people should try and get all their calcium from food.
Lily Pads taking MCHA is I think doing the right thing. This form of calcium is held in a complex form similar to food calcium and poses less danger to the heart as well as the effect on the bones has been shown in many trials to be better than the simple carbonate or citrate forms. But still split any dose you are taking as much as possible.
The relatively high dose of Vit D is fine. This dose has other beneficial effects as well as on bone health. With regard to strontium the jury is still out on this. Research results have been quite variable. Most diets have sufficient as it is only required in very trace amounts.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3364537
• September 10, 2012 at 6:04 pm
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Vitamin K2 will clean the calcium out of the arteries in about 6 weeks, according to "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox," a new book I recommend.

None of the recent articles about calcium, D, and heart disease have mentioned K2.

• By thewiseoldowl
• Reply 3364707
• September 10, 2012 at 7:17 pm
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Yes Vitamin K2 is an important part of the bone health/strength story along with Vit D3 and there is increasing evidence that it does help the calcium deposit in the right place. As with most new developments this will take a few years to be fully accepted mainstream. The complication with Vit K is the effect on the thickness of the blood. Many older people are on anticoagulants and the Vit K interferes with these. It is a very delicate balance to get right and needs to be monitored and checked by your health professional to make sure it is right especially with older people. It can to done as there are new forms of Vit K2 that require minute amounts to give the calcium effects and these amounts are so small they have little effect on the blood thickness. Not sure about the claim to clear your arteries in 6 weeks but agree it will reverse deposition of calcium there.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3365326
• September 11, 2012 at 12:34 am
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Vitamin K1 is about clotting, not K2. K2 has nothing to do with clotting. Most doctors know nothing about it, and perpetuate misinformation.

Virtually no one is deficient in K1. If they were, they would bleed to death from a tiny cut. It's estimated that 75% of the population is deficient in K2.

The explanation of how this came about, as well as all the references you seek, are in the book, "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox." If you really want to know about K2, buy it and read it--or get it from the library.

You are absoutely right. Statins, among the USA's most prescribed drugs, which cause memory loss and type2 diabetes, will soon be in the history books alongside thalidomide, celebrex, and vioxx. Cholesterol and heart disease never did have an established causal connection, as I was told by my nutrition teacher back in 1977. He had a family history of early heart attacks, so he had a personal interest in ferreting out the true story. He also had a Ph.D in Biochemistry. And I was happy to learn recently that he is close to 80 and still alive. He told us to go ahead and eat our eggs and he also warned about trans fats, way back then!

Here is an excerpt from a recent post by NOF member Phil 6200 that will answer some of your questions:

"VITAMIN K2 (mk4) & CALCIFICATION
In the Rotterdam study, a large European clinical trial following 4,807 subjects aged at least 55 over a 7-10 year period; researchers found that K2 significantly reduced the risk of cardiovascular disease by 57%, death from all causes by 26%, and severe aortic calcification by 52%. Footnote (2)

The calcification of the heart and arteries has a major impact on your cardiovascular health, independently of fatty deposits. While this calcification was once believed to be a “passive” process, in which calcium, (which is not properly incorporated into the bones), simply seeps into the arteries, careful molecular studies of these deposits have shown that the calcification process follows the regulated process of bone formation and repair. The smooth muscle cells present in healthy blood vessels develop from “multipotent mesenchymal cells” – precursor cells which are present in blood vessels to renew the smooth muscle cell populations, but which can also become bone-forming osteoblasts if they’re exposed to the relevant growth factors. Footnote (2)

It is now clear that vascular calcification is the result of a breakdown in the regulation of the development of multipotent cells, resulting in the creation of “calcifying vascular cells.” Substances which stimulate the development of osteoblasts and of bone matrix are found in atherosclerotic plaques, but not in healthy vasculature. As a result, atherosclerotic lesions and calcified heart valves contain matrix vesicles and all of the major components of osteoid, the early bone matrix formed by osteoblasts. In fact, calcified blood vessels actually contain ectopic bone tissue. Footnote (2)

Matrix Gla Protein (MGP), a vitamin K-dependent protein which is biosynthesized by smooth muscle cells in blood vessels, prevents multipotent mesenchymal cells from developing into osteoblasts. It does this by inhibiting Bone Morphogenic Protein-2 (BMP-2), a protein which triggers this abnormal cellular development and which is found in calcifying blood vessels. Footnote (2)
__________________
There is a great deal more about how this process works in "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox."
__________________
The article linked below, by Lara Pizzorno, covers more, and if you click the button at the bottom of the article, you'll be able to read all her references:

http://www.lmreview.com/articles/view/Vitamin-K2-Essential-for-Prevention-o f-Age-Associated-Chronic-Disease/

• By lilypads
• Reply 3365353
• September 11, 2012 at 12:52 am
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http://www.inspire.com/groups/national-osteoporosis-foundation/discussion/t oo-much-calcium-1/?ref=as&asat=43856714

Here is a whole discussion about too much calcium, that includes great posts and many links posted by Phil6200, including his whole letter to his doctor, which I excerpted above.

And here is an excerpt of a post by Ted Hutchinson that has many links to the kind of info Dexaguru is asking for:

"That shows you haven't been paying attention to the links I have provided.
There are some 101 studies listed here: http://healthydietsandscience.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=statins that show what actually happens when people lower cholesterol with statins too enthusiastically.

We really do have to try to learn from the science and apply those lessons whoever is trying to make money out of deceiving us whether it be doctors, the drug industry or big business or nutty cranks who have been misled by dishonest researchers.

If the fact is that those with higher saturated fat intake have fewer CVD deaths than people with low Sat fat intakes then we are being misled if people try to make us think otherwise.

If the fact is that in practice people with lower cholesterol levels than normal die younger then we have got to understand that this fact should be reflected in modern up to date evidence medicine and we must look at the financial incentives that are given to health professionals and by whom that persuades them to lower cholesterol levels to the harm of their patients.

It really doesn't matter whether the distortion of the truth is coming from the Vegetarian lobby or the pharmaceutical lobby.
What matters is that ordinary people learn sufficiently about the science that underlies heart disease or osteoporosis so they understand not only how the human body evolved to function best but also so they understand how they are being misled either by those with missionary zeal to convert the gullible or those with financial interests.

So having fried my bacon, eggs, liver and veggies in saturated fat (coconut oil) I will not be cholesterol lowering ever.

I intend to retain my cognitive function and sex drive.
There is a reason why Alzheimer's (like Diabetes) is increasing and lack of choline, from eggs/liver, is one of the reasons. http://www.smart-publications.com/articles/choline-uridine-builds-new-neuro ns-and-protect-against-Alzheimers

Hopefully ScottsIrishGreenEyes will discover the truth before too much damage is done to her cognitive function."

And I can say the same to DXAGURU.

• By lilypads
• Reply 3365364
• September 11, 2012 at 12:58 am
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Both of these are from the magazine "Wise Traditions," Summer 2012.

STATINS-BLOCKBUSTER AND HEALTH BUSTER

According to IMS health, simvastatin is the second most prescribed drug in
the U.S. with Lipitor coming in thirteenth place. One in four Americans aged
forty-five and older takes statin drugs to lower cholesterol and presumably
lower the risk of heart attacks (Mercola, 2011).

Serious side effects have been emerging over the years since statins were
introduced. The FDA has now announced that statins may increase the risk of
type 2 diabetes. This applies to Zocor (simvastatin), Lipitor (atorvastatin)
and Crestor (rosuvastatin) (The New York Times, 2011). Statins have been
linked with liver damage, muscle weakness, memory loss and confusion
(Mercola, 2011).

Statins are involved in major drug-induced nutrient depletions and increase
the risk for heart disease because of their method of action. Depleting the
body of CoQ10 by blocking the pathway used to produce cholesterol can lead
to heart failure, high blood pressure, angina, mitral valve prolapse, loss
of cellular energy and increase in free radicals damaging the mitochondria
(Pelton, 2001).

The majority of CoQ10 is manufactured by the cells in a complicated
seventeen-step process that requires vitamins B2, B3, B5, B6, B12, C, and
folic acid (Pelton, 2001).

Statins, which are intended to reduce cholesterol production, increase
insulin levels, blood sugar levels and belly fat. The higher the dosage of
statins, the higher the diabetes risk. Cholesterol is necessary for the
production of vitamin D, sex hormones and bile production. About 25 percent
of the brain is cholesterol (Mercola, 2011).
_________________________

NEW WARNINGS

The FDA has added two new warnings for cholesterol-lowering statin drugs,
taken by more than twenty million Americans and grossing over one hundred
thirty billion dollars for Pfizer over the years. The agency now requires
warning labels saying that statins can increase the risk for diabetes and
memory loss.

Reluctant to admit any problems wth this modern wonder drug, Steven Nissen,
chief of cardiology at the Cleveland Clinic says, "These are nuances, tiny
little tweaks to the label, and the bigger picture doesn't change."
According to Nissan, "There are few drugs that have saved as many lives as
statins. . . " (www.reuters.com, February 28, 2012). Reference, please?

Try as researchers may, they have not shown that statins save lives, they
just lower cholesterol, with consequences ranging from crippling back pain
to cancer. Diabetes is not a "tiny little tweak," but a serious disease.

As for cognitive impairment and memory loss, former astronaut Duane
Graveline, MD, MPH, describes this tiny little tweak as follows: "The most
important cognitive dysfunction mentioned [by the FDA] is transient global
amnesia, followed by severe memory lapses, disorientation, confusion and
increased forgetfulness. . . [Transient global amnesia] occurs without the
slightest warning. Apruptly, within a matter of seconds, you lose completely
the ability to formulate new memory and become completely non-functional. .
. Can you imagine a pilot having one of these conditions in a new aircraft,
one in which he has no recall for training. . . Or to a school bus driver or
heavy equipment operator or to anyone requiring constant vigilance to
suddenly experience transient global amnesia. This would be a nightmare
situation."

• By Beverleigh
• Reply 3372515
• September 13, 2012 at 3:30 pm
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In our country, South Africa, we have something called "Foodstate" vitamins which are vitamins in food form which I believe are best as the body recognizes the supplements as organic and not inorganic. I take the calcium and magnesium formula (containing vit d as well) and follow an alkaline diet as best as possible, in order to obtain all the essential minerals, vitamins etc necessary for good health.

Alternatively increase your calcium and mineral intake by eating sesame seeds, almonds, dates and as much plants foods as possible as dairy is way too acidic and if you look at stats and facts the most healthy boned people are those who don't consume dairy.

I am hoping that the above will have a positive effect on my bones when I go for my next bone scan in the very near future.

• By thewiseoldowl
• Reply 3373659
• September 13, 2012 at 11:36 pm
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This discussion has had many interesting viewpoints put and references quoted. Some conclusions I would question but anyone following the thread would have increased their knowledge. I would like to refer the group to a website I have considerable regard for in this field. It is well worth a visit and good study.
http://www.osteopenia3.com/

• By elise52
• Reply 3387341 · In reply to 3362303 by dxaguru
• September 18, 2012 at 11:37 pm
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re: the cost of the cal ium supplements, I tried a number of the cheaper ones but my stomach strongly objected to each of them. So I found a supplement with the mcha kind, and it contains D3 and k and a bunch of other minerals, made by New Roots Herbal in Canada. It says to take 6 caps per day but with the other food in my diet, I usually only take 2 or 3 and an extra D3 1000 iu instead of everything from the expensive caps. No issues with digestion now!! The supplement is called Strong Bones. I bought a smaller bottle to try, 180 caps but it's sold in larger quantities which brings the price down. Has anyone tried these?

• By Cuenca
• Reply 3394755 · In reply to 3391762 by greendolphingirl
• September 21, 2012 at 1:15 pm
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I am new to all this as I am newly diagnosed with osteoporosis. Was very surprised to hear celery is high in calcium. Do you have any other info about that? Thanks!

• By lilypads
• Reply 3395022
• September 21, 2012 at 2:56 pm
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Cuenca, eat celery if you want to, but if you want to reverse osteoporosis without drugs, celery is not going to do it. You need ALL the minerals and ALL the vitamins discussed in Lara Pizzorno's book "Your Bones." You need to stop smoking, if you smoke, and stop drinking soda. And you need weight-bearing exercise--but be careful with that, because the wrong kind can cause fractures.

Don't get distracted by minor details. Calcium is only part of the picture.

Here are some success stories:

http://www.inspire.com/groups/national-osteoporosis-foundation/discussion/s till-more-sucess-stories/

• By DocLynn
• Reply 3397196 · In reply to 3365353 by lilypads
• September 22, 2012 at 1:02 pm
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Lilypad thank you so much for your posts they are the most helpful to me of any I have read. Your philosophy is right on and your logic is perfect for the terrible healthcare situation we are in. Thanks -- just doesn't seem adequate. Lynn