Bending over???

• By pgreene
• Posted January 24, 2008 at 6:35 pm
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I can help you with this one from experience! I had surgery last May to extend my spinal fusion from T4 down to the sacrum with bolts into the pelvis. I have not been allowed to bend since surgery. You need to go to a medical supply store or check with your pharmacy for a grabber. There are several styles available. You will only pick up one piece of clothing at a time but it sure beats bending over when you are not allowed to. I used it for picking up anything off the floor or in low cabinets. I even used it doing laundry. I have learned now to squat or get down on one knee to do what I have to do on the floor. So there are options to not bending over.

Peggy

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• By Estee_Schueller
• Posted January 25, 2008 at 9:09 am
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I feel the same as you do Peggy and my family has no empathy toward me with this dreaded disease. I have osteopenia of the spine and osteoporosis of the hip.Everyone thinks I dwell on it too much! I forgot not to bend or stretch and have had back pain for several days after cleaning out a closet. I also live in New York and when I go outdoors I am so afraid of slipping on the ice. Hopefully, more information and support groups will come out. Only people who suffer from this disease can understand the fears that we go through. I just bought a great book by Dr. Felicia Cosman called What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Osteoporosis - Help Prevent and Even Reverse the Disease That Burdens Millions of Women. I have been reading it and have an appointment with her in April. The book has been very helpful to me. Let's hang in there together!!!

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• By Southernlady
• Posted January 25, 2008 at 9:11 am
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Thank you Peggy! I will sure be buying one when I get paid.

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• By michellea
• Posted January 25, 2008 at 12:15 pm
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I think comments that link back pain to osteoporosis are misleading. Osteoporosis does not cause back pain unless you have fractured something. Normal wear and tear on the joints and out of shape muscles cause most people to experience back aches.
Solution: you need regular exercise for your back and stomach muscles and stretching. The best I have found is yoga, three times a week. Classes are offered everywhere in a style called "gentle" for older people or those with injuries. Another resource is the book "Yoga for people over 50". If you experience severe back pain , especially suddenly, you need to see a doctor and get an x-ray. Otherwise, if it resolves after resting and over the counter pain relievers, it is probably back strain.

Oh, and loose weight, it is a HUGE strain on your back.
Osteoporosis ( I don't like to call it a disease as EVERYONE experiences some degree of bone lose as they age) is a condition that can give you a nudge to start taking better care of your body and actually lead to a healthier old age. It requires discipline and persistence, however.

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• By Dixie
• Posted January 25, 2008 at 11:42 pm
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Dear Southernlady, I see from your profile that you are about 1 year younger than I am. How long has it been since you were diagnosed, may I ask? I have been disabled by this disease since 1997 (I was 41 then) Since then I have listened to unsympathetic opinions and harsh statements and that is NOT comforting at all....and unkind statements only enhance that anxiety...you can not keep yourself stressed over this. We are all different human beings and this disease affects us all differently, just like different medications and methods do. Thats why many of us enjoy these support groups where we can share our experiences and not judge each other.

No you are not crazy and yes life don't stand still for you. I learned to love my heating pad and occassionally I do wear a soft back brace. But I modified my lifestyle. Like the laundry, I started using a rubbermaid tub and put it up on a stool where it is easy to reach into without having to bend too far. Or put a barstool near the washer and put the laundry up on top. If it hurts, your not doing it right. If you have to keep osteoporosis on your mind (and we all do) put it into ways to make it easier for yourself, not about what you can be afraid to do...just compromise with yourself. Take a hot bubble bath and then go do the laundry. Its just a lifestyle change, kind of like having to learn to wear false teeth, or use a girdle or wear glasses. It is disaapointing but take it as a new challenge! There's nothting wrong with learning new ways to do things smarter. Hell, young kids are now having back pain at early ages from years of carrying around heavy books in back packs! I have had severe back pain and muscle spasms since 1997 and before this I was an exercise nut, bodybuilder, lifted free weights of a minimum of 120 pounds! I rode my bike a minimum of three miles per day in all kinds of weather. And still to this day I have been to doctors that don't understand the "real" reason for this back pain! So you hang in there my friend and find what works for you! Peace, Dixie

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• By rosaflor
• Posted January 26, 2008 at 8:15 am
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I don't know whether this board allows us to mention commercial sources but there is a mail-order catalog (also online) called Dr Leonard that sells health-help equipment and gadgets very reasonably. I just checked online; their "grabber" is called a "gopher" and costs $7.95. Dr Leonard's service is reliable; I have used them a lot. In fact I am going to order a gopher right now to minimize climbing up and down on stools all the time and increasing the risk of falling.

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• By pgreene
• Posted January 26, 2008 at 9:57 am
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I actually have the Gopher and was able to get it in my local pharmacy. It is good but doesn't do well with heavier objects. There are some grabbers available that are more heavy duty and able to pick up heavier objects like wet clothes, large cans of food, etc.

Peggy

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• By rosaflor
• Posted January 26, 2008 at 10:20 am
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Thanks for the information, Peggy. I will hold out for a stronger grabber. My problem isn't bending over (yet anyway) but being 5 feet tall with a lot of 8-foot high cabinets and shelves I spend much too much time scrambling up and down ladders and stools and am worrying more now about falling. I always had the feeling that if I moved fast enough old age wouldn't be able to catch me but, guess what, it attacked from within. What is more within than bones?

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• By Southernlady
• Posted January 26, 2008 at 1:31 pm
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I should have stated that my back was hurting when I bent over because I have Osteoarthritis in my back....my doctor said last year a tiny amount but I do hurt unless I take Aleve and I don't take that much because I understand that it can take from our bones too. Thank you all for posting. Thank you for your advice. I am going to keep doing what I do and I think I may go down to 1200 mg a day of calcium citrate instead of 1500mg a day.

I did read that we don't have to count the calcium in foods just in our vitamins....I think I read this from the mayo clinic online. I went to the Mayo Clinic site and signed up to receive a newsletter every two week I think. Sometimes they discuss Osteo........Have a wonderful weekend.

I am going to have my second BMD this year around October.......I had one November 2006. I wanted to see what this Evista is doing plus the walking and calcium, D3 and Magnesium. I will be going to the same lab as before even though my doctor does not like that one I need to get another reading on their machines.

I was diagnosed in March 2003 with Osteopenia........my score was -2.4 in my left hip. We did not do anything but start on Calcium........then two months later May 2003 I had a traumatic brain injury and I lost memory so I did not think about Calcium and Osteo and my doctors said NO vitamins....NeuroSurgeons do not believe in vitamins or herbs,,,,,,then in 2006 I wanted to take another test......I had asked my doctor here in this small town, (I moved from a big city) to let me have a BMD and he said I was too young and I was 46.....now I am 51...........well he found out I was not too young. My T scores in 2006 was I think -1.5 in spine and hips -3.1........I do believe I will be much better this year when I have my BMD,,,,,thanks to the Lord and me trying.

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• By MotherGoose
• Posted January 26, 2008 at 1:42 pm
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You need some insruction in body mechanics -- how we use our bodies to carry out our daily routines. A physical therapist or an occupational therapist can help with this. The principles of good body mechanics are the same -- regardless of whether OP is in the picture.
First, do nor bend over from the waist -- it wrecks your back as you have learned -- with bone loss, you can sustain a vertebral compression fracture. And -- if you do not have bone loss, you can stress your intervertebral discs.
Keep your back in a line -- straight-- and bend from the hips and knees. No need to get down on your knees.
Try to bring your work up to a reasonable work level. Put your basket on a chair, for example and sort from there. Don't let folks throw their clothes on the floor (for you to pick up).
Sit yout son down -- tell him this is serious and he'll be taking care of you the rest of his life if he does not comprehend how serious your back problems are. Do not let him blow this off. He really needs to understand that you need the help of the whole household to be able to keep yourself going into the future. Mothers seem so "everlasting" to our young -- even older -- children. And mothers often dig their own graves, so to speak, by "just doing whatever" and not wanting to nag. Hence, kids think we can keep on and on and on. WHOA! Give him a basket for his dirty clothes which he will bring to the washer. If he does not, guess what, soon he will have only dirty clothes. He will become socially unacceptable (that is, the girls will avoid him). Dawn breaks -- he sees the light! Remember he is responsible for his slovenly behavoir, not you! He is also responsible for helping his mother, but that might take awhile. KIds do thrive on responsibility -- they need it to feel any accomplishment. Let him take it on.
Lucy Buckley PT

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• By bgillis
• Posted January 30, 2008 at 7:02 pm
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I am amazed re the comments concerning "bending over". My Dexa numbers are bad: 4s for spine & 3s for hips (diagnosed when I was 57 & my number are pretty much the same 10 yrs later!) I do back exercises daily (have exercised since I was 28 with no problems; no fractures). I bend back a lot to stretch the spine & I feel one should go forward as well for other muscles. I bend over a lot....golf 4 times/wk...pick up debris off my lawn which can take an hr or more!).; touch toes, etc. I religiously work-out daily & with weight plus walk 5 mi/daily. I feel the body is to be moved. Please more comments on this issue. Thank you.....bgillis

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• By sdivas
• Posted January 31, 2008 at 11:07 am
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Hi, I agree the body is made to be moved. I work on many exercises that strengthen the front and back; core muscles. Personally, I wouldn't bend over touch toes which may put pressure on the spine. I flat back (tabletop) or hinge from the hips and squat picking up items. While I sometimes tend to push the envelope, I'm not willing to round my spine or bend over to the floor taking any chance that in a split second, I could fracture. I think an active physical life can be achieved with some alternatives that doesn't have to discontinue the activities. Sandi

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• By windblown
• Posted February 16, 2008 at 6:02 pm
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Hi Rosaflor: I have a lot of trouble with bending over, since I've had 6 spinal fusions due to fx's. I've tried about 6 different kinds of grabbers, reach it's, and the one I like the best is sold by Sammons Preston. This one comes in several different lengths and it also has a magnet on the end to pick up light weight metal objects. It also has a hook on it that's good for moving things across the floor, that you don't want to pick up. I have several of these and use the longer one for wet clothes, and reaching things that are high up in a cabinet. It's much sturdier that the kind I've seen and used from your local med supply or drug store. If you get the catalog you'll find many things that might help you around the house.

My problem is that bending really hurts, so I know it's due to the other spinal/arthritic problems I have. I usually squat to pick up heavier items, but use a dolly to transport them from room to room, I can't lift anything heavier than a couple of pounds so I'm careful by modifying what I do. I've been dealing with this issue for a very long time so I've found many little tricks to help myself out.

I still walk everyday, go to PT, and do weight bearing upper body work, but you just need to find out what you can do and what you can't based on your current medical situation.

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• By windblown
• Posted February 16, 2008 at 6:24 pm
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Hi Lucy: I noticed the PT after your name and figured you are a Physical Therapist, is that correct? I'm having trouble with this idea of bending from the waist v bending from the hips, and I can't think of a move where I actually bend from the waist. Could you give me an example of both? I have titanium rods and screws at L3-S1 and my back doesn't move like most's other do. Even if you touch your toes (which I can't do) aren't you bending from the hips and the upper thoracic spine/shoulders/neck to do that? I'm sure there is a situation where you bend from the waist, but for some reason I can't think of one.

If you could clear this up I would really appreciate it. Thanks...

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• By MotherGoose
• Posted February 17, 2008 at 12:05 am
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Dear Windblown:
Many tasks and activities bend us over from the waist. Gardening, Putting things in and out of the oven (not wall ovens), bending over to put on our shoes, putting on pantihose (a real spine cruncher), reaching across the table or desk., picking up small children, taking a babyout of a crib, vacuuming, raking, sweeping -- on and on.
Now -- all these can be done with a straight back and bending at the hips and knees, but watch the folks around you and you'll note a lot of curved backs as the above-mentioned tasks are being done.
Lucy Buckley PT

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• By MotherGoose
• Posted February 17, 2008 at 12:25 am
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Dear bgillis:
Indeed, the body is made to be moved and used. But not abused -- especially when we have bone loss. Although your DEXA scores are only part of your fracture risk, they do matter.
Please do not touch your toes -- that is not good for anyone's back. It was taken out of P.E.
routines in schools many years ago. The stress to our vertebrae is often silent and not felt at the times of stress. Think of the camel's back and how it was loaded and loaded, over and over, before it finally gave in. Many people have vertebral fractures and do not even know it. It is the
accumulation of many microfractures that deforms and finally compresses the vertebra. Wer doso much of our work in front of us that the flexors (muscles that bend us) get used -- even get shortened and the extensors (muscles that stand us up) get overstretched and weakened. The best way to strengthen abdominals --which are flexors -- is either standing or back-lying (but not doing crunches). Touching toes does not do much for your abdominals and can hurt your back.
Lucy Buckley PT

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• By bgillis
• Posted February 17, 2008 at 3:45 pm
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Lucy, thank you for responding to my comments. I do not touch my toes with my feet together plus my knees are flexed somewhat. I feel if one does back bends to strengthen the spine, then one should move forward to use those muscles.

I spoke to a woman about a yr ago with same bad numbers. The difference between us is that she is a bit older with mutiple health issues. She would lean forward & break a rib! She was about to go on Forteo so I don't know her outcome.

Perhaps I will fracture in the future, but I am not worrying about it as enjoying my active life......Bonnie

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• By windblown
• Posted February 17, 2008 at 4:22 pm
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Dear Lucy: Thanks for your reply... It's interesting that you just listed the top ten things that cause the most back pain for me. It still doesn't seem like I'm bending from the waist, but I'll definitely take your word for it. I'm currently going to PT for cervical problems and starting a treatment for lumbar tomorrow, so I'm going to be particularly aware of the movements I make.

I have 50% bone loss in my spine, but I'm improving on Forteo. I have several reach it's/grabbers and use those as much as possible, but I still have the excruciating pain when I bend forward, which I try not to do, but it's really hard. I usually squat down with my knees to get things off the ground or out of low drawers, but since I've been doing this for so long my knees are starting to give out on me.

Thanks again for your input, it's nice to talk to someone with experience in this area ;)

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• By MotherGoose
• Posted February 17, 2008 at 8:37 pm
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I hope you have told the PT about your bone loss. (Although I would have expected that to have come up when you were first evaluated.)
Generally, bending forward -- the "No-No" -- doesn't cause pain although it can cause silent damage. (It would be a warning if it did cause pain).
Your back has to last you a long time, so be good to it.
Good Luck!
Lucy Buckley PT

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• By Raven1
• Posted February 18, 2008 at 3:49 pm
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This is for Estee and anyone else living in a climate that makes slippery walking ie snow or ice.
LL Bean sells rubber & steel cleats that fit over any size shoe. I've walked on solid ice with them and I've never fallen. They fit in your purse or breifcase. When you call LLBean to order them you must tell them that the main store in Maine carries them. They cost all of $8. They are easy to put on and take off. They're stretchy like giant rubberbands. When I'm lazy I drive with them on. You don't want to walk with them on wooden floors or linoleum.

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