Apple Cider Vinegar and Low Bone Density

Has anyone heard anything about apple cider vinegar? I was dismayed to read in my WEB MD Newsletter yesterday the following (especially since I eat lots of salads, and always with apple cider vinegar and oil dressing):
"Long-term use of apple cider vinegar could cause low potassium levels and lower bone density. If you already have low potassium or osteoporosis, talk to your doctor before using apple cider vinegar."

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no I hadn't heard of that! TY for posting it. I recently bought some apple cider vinegar to put on salads because Dr Oz was suggesting it- I forget why. I would also like to hear from someone who knows something about it.

I do know potassium is important for the bones:

Potassium, magnesium, and fruit and vegetable intakes are associated with greater bone mineral density in elderly men and women http://www.ajcn.org/content/69/4/727.long

there is a table in that paper showing bone density wrt amount of potassium and servings of fruit and veggies consumed and the relationship is pretty evident. Later in the paper they say

"......There are theoretical reasons to expect associations between bone and each of these nutrients, but there is only limited empirical evidence. Metabolic balance studies have shown that potassium administration promotes renal calcium retention, whereas low potassium intake increases daily and fasting urinary calcium excretion rates (17). Dietary potassium may influence bone resorption through these effects on calcium balance. A study of 18 postmenopausal women showed improved calcium balance, increased serum osteocalcin concentrations, and decreased urinary hydroxyproline excretion when the women were given enough potassium bicarbonate to neutralize endogenous acid loads from normal diets (47). The authors concluded that this buffering protects the skeleton...."

so the potassium is needed to neutralize the acid? If not enough to do this, then calcium will be used?

This is what I don't understand about the acid/alkaline diet where people say even though lemon juice etc is acidic, it ends up being alkaline in the body. Well something has to neutralize that acid in the stomach?

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No, nothing has to neutralize the acid in the stomach. It's there to digest protein. If it's neutralized, the protein moves to the small intestine without being properly digested. That's the problem with drinking cold milk. Because of its coldness, tt doesn't get digested by that acid, and moves into the small intestine's alkaline environment, where, according the Jack Schwarz, it putrifies, and causes thinning of the intestinal wall, pockets (diverticuli) and perhaps even leaky gut.

As we age, we lose some of our stomach's acidity, and taking antacids is NOT GOOD because they neutralize what little is left. That acid is part of our bodies' wonderful and intelligent design. Remeber high-school biology?

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By the way, I recently bought the book "Folk Medicine," by D.C. Jarvis, M.D., and he recommends apple cider vinegar as a SOURCE of potassium, for almost every ailment he discusses.

I am just reporting this, not saying he's right or wrong. I mainly use a.c. vinegar in bone broths to draw out the minerals from the bones.

For salads, which I, too, eat almost every day, I make a dressing using garlic, olive oil, fresh lime juice, pink salt, and maple syrup. Try that, and you'll never go back to vinegar of any kind, whether it's good or bad for us. (Vinegar makes me cough, so I stopped using in on salads some years ago.)

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Thanks so much, HighImpactLover and Lilypads -- I too don't understand the logic behind the alkaline diet and its contention that high acid foods like lemons are considered to be alkaline when they enter the digestive system. And Lilypads, that salad dressing diet sounds great. I may try that. The news we get, even though we're told it's based on science, is so contradictory and confounding. Vinegar is so often touted as being a very healthful part of one's diet. And now, we get new information telling us just the opposite. It is truly crazy making!

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RuRu, I totally agree with you. It was for exactly that reason--not knowing who or what to believe--that I went back to school in the 70s, when I was in my 30s, and took college science courses--chemistry, biology, biochemistry, and nutrition. I did not become a scientist, but I learned enough to make decisions about what to do when I was confronted with conflicting information. I had excellent teachers, and I am very grateful to them. I always look to see what someone is selling when they present new information. If they are selling the product they're pushing, I look around and see where else I can find it and what else I can find out about it. I refuse to pay for advertorials. And I never buy products that are promoted in health newsletters. Most of the time, those same products are available much cheaper at Swanson or Vitacost.

I personally think all this acid /alkaline stuff is a crock of ____. As long as you don't eat huge amounts of meat and no vegetables, the body's buffering system works fine and keeps our blood pH where it should be. Yes, calcium is used in that process, but it's also used in muscle contraction and other bodily processes. As long as there is enough calcium--and K2 and D3--the system works. It's easy to get all worried about phosphorous and acid, but those are not the real issues. The real issues are getting enough (and not too much) good, unprocessed food, preferably organic, plenty of veggies, and enough exercise, as well as the essential nutrients. It's not that hard.

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Check out this website: the-apple-cider-vinegar-company.co.uk/shop/page/4?shop_param=
It discusses how ACV helps keep your bones strong and that ACV is "loaded with potassium." I will do further reading and update more later.

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The mineral of human bone is about 80% calcium and 19% phosphorus by weight. It is less than 1% everything else, including magnesium, boron, kead, cadmium, arsenic, strontium, etc.

There is a difference between using apple cider vinegar as a condiment on a salad and drinking a quart of it a day for "health" I would think. Many studies that look at one nutrient or foodstuff in isolation don't mention the amounts used. For example, what if the greens in the salad when ingested along with the apple cider and the EVOO in the salad dressing, when combined form counteract the acidity?

A few tablespoons in a normal diet is much ado about nothing, I would think. But, stress does cause increased stomach acidity, and the stress of worrying about apple cider vinegar is probably far more damaging to one's health and quality of life than the foodstuff itself.

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Hi All,

I had always thought that apple cider vinegar helps to keep you alkaline and therefore good for your bones. I had remembered reading this as well. I just did a quick google search after reading this post. This is what came up from Web MD.



"Apple cider vinegar is used alone or with honey for weak bones (osteoporosis), weight loss, leg cramps and pain, upset stomach, sore throats, sinus problems, high blood pressure, arthritis, to help rid the body of toxins, stimulate thinking, slow the aging process, regulate blood pressure, reduce cholesterol, and fight infection".

I Like I said I did a quick search. If I find anything else later in the day I will post it.
Thanks,
Wellness

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I Read in the Readers Digest or maybe someplace else
I realy don't remember.
A Doctor said, All this crap about
what you eat is just that. Your Body is made up to take care
of all Food. I am going with that.

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I used to think that but then I got OP- I guess my body isn't so smart after all!

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Food had nothing to do with it>
I got OP from Sprue Des. and small fram.
Sprue rob U body and all good food you
have eaten and vit. You much not eat Weat
Barly Wry found this out way to late.

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It's all very confusing. I grew up with the notion that drinking lots of milk was good for you. Now I find out this may not be a good idea!

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Much of the negative press in the medical world around apple cider vinegar stems from a case study entitled "Hypokalemia, Hyperreninemia and Osteoporosis in a Patient Ingesting Large Amounts of Cider Vinegar." It was based on 1 case study of 1 woman who was drinking over a cup of apple cider vinegar a day over a long period of time. The studies as to its helpful nature are not particularly conclusive, but neither is the anti-vinegar information. It is nutritionally beneficial, just don't go overboard.

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I am using ACV last 3 days for my rheumatoid foot. 2 teaspoons ACV, 2 teaspoons lemon j. 1 teaspoon honey and 4 oz water. All I can say is it appears to work on the inflammation. Twice a day.

I might do one week on and one week off ACV regularly when better now. Then when in a flare take it every day for a few weeks.

Too much of anything can be troublesome.

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Who has had a problem with spilling calcium.My 24 hr. urine test indicated this.Has anyone else experienced this symptom and if so how did you treat it.I need some advice.I am only taking 500mgs. of clacium daily.Thanks for your support=RAE K

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hi iola in response to what you wrote;
'I Read in the Readers Digest or maybe someplace else
I realy don't remember.
A Doctor said, All this crap about
what you eat is just that. Your Body is made up to take care
of all Food. I am going with that.'


Magnesium, in fact, is one of the most depleted minerals in farm soils. To add insult to injury, new plant hybrids are continually introduced that have been bred to survive on these mineral-depleted soils. Of course, when mineral-depleted crops are eaten by animals or by us, they will sooner or later cause disease. Even though organically raised crops should be a better bet nutritionally, this isn’t always the case, and it pays in terms of your health to learn how your farmer replenishes the minerals on his fields.

“Do you know that most of us today are suffering from certain dangerous diet deficiencies which cannot be remedied until depleted soils from which our food comes are brought back into proper mineral balance? The alarming fact is that foods (fruits, vegetables, grains) now being raised on millions of acres of land that no longer contain enough of certain minerals are starving us—no matter how much of them we eat. The truth is that our foods vary enormously in value, and some of them aren’t worth eating as food.” These words of warning are from the 74th Congress, 2nd session, Senate document number 264, of 1936. It is truly sobering to learn that the decline in soil mineral balance was a topic of serious national concern more than seventy years ago, and the deficit has been affecting us—while steadily getting worse— since our grandparents’ generation.

http://nutritionalmagnesium.org/articles/nutrition/347-magnesium-deficiency -despite-a-whole-foods-diet.html


thats just a drop on the bucket.

eating correctly is especially important to those whose bodies are stressed to the point of disease,


"the food you eat can be either the safest and most powerful form of medicine or the slowest form of poison". Ann Wigmore

and" the doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest his patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the prevention of disease" Thomas A Edison

unfortunately we grew up in a society that has at its core poor food quality, choices and culturally little care about what we eat and how it effects our environment (the earth which gives us life, healthy or unhealthy depending on how we treat it) and our own health.

we have to re-learn what food is, in a way its like suddenly being handicapped and having to re-learn how to function in life differently

only after decades are we realizing and paying the price for our ignorance, brought on by economical and political ego and greed.

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My understanding has been that apple cider vinegar is good for us because it helps the body produce the appropriate amount & proper PH of stomach acid for the efficient pathway of calcium from food to bones. I believe it produces mallic acid for this to occur. I was also taught that eating an oxidized apple which has been cut & left out to turn brown or un-pasteurized apple cider will have the same beneficial effect. It is interesting now to hear an opposite viewpoint. I guess I need to do more reading!

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