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As I was researching another topic, I came across this interesting article about how we have been mislead in the name of "healthy eating". I'm certainly not a nutrition expert, but is it possible that the past generations had the whole eating thing right? What do you think?
http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtbones.html
Cancer Diverticulitis Colorectal cancer Ovarian cancer Pneumonia Osteoporosis Stress Heart disease Arthritis Uterine cancer Leukemia Confusion Pancreatic cancer Stroke Prostate cancer Fosamax Diverticulosis Diabetes Kidney cancer Breast cancer Cervical cancer Constipation Obesity Hypothyroidism Bladder cancer
A very intersting and informative link..thank you for posting.
Dear livnwel:
You asked, "...is it possible that past generations had the whole eating thing right?" If you don't mind living a shorter life with more medical problems but with tastier food, then yes. If you prefer to live a longer life more free of medical problems such as cancer, heart disease, stroke, diabetes, COPD, pneumonia, arthritis, osteoporosis, macular degeneration, kidney failure, liver disease, Alzheimer's, obesity, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., then the answer is no. Epidemiological research indicates that eating the delicious but unhealthy Western diet high in animal protein, saturated fat, trans fat, salt, caffeine, phosphoric acid, and alcohol and low in fruits, vegetables, and high-fat fish will predispose you to the diseases of the Western red-meat-and-dairy-loving diet. http://www.mediterrasian.com/ http://www.mediterrasian.com/intro.htm http://www.mediterrasian.com/scientific_research.htm
Dear livnwel:
I forgot to mention that diseases of the colon and rectum (such as diverticulosis, diverticulitis, constipation, and colorectal cancer) are increasing among elderly people living in the affluent Western nations who refuse to abandon their addiction to the fiber-deficient, burned-meat-loving Western diet. Here are some research studies at PubMed (National Library of Medicine): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9411143?ordinalpos=5&itool=EntrezSystem2 .PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocS um http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16885692?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDoc Sum http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12449547?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7942584?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2 .PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocS um http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v294/n5840/abs/294453a0.html
Dear livnwel:
Here are 6 PubMed studies that link the processed-meat-and-dairy-loving Western diet to prostate cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11519764?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=3&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8105097?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2 .PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_ RA&linkpos=3&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17315319?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17278090?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=3&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12869397?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16492906?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=3&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
mchavin - thanks for bringing scientific evidence into the discussion. It's interesting how often people prefer the results of anecdotal data to those of controlled studies.
Dear painter1998:
Did you know that Adolf Hitler was a failed painter before he rose to become the leader of Nazi Germany?
If he had succeeded as a painter, then maybe history would have taken a different course. Anyhow, here are 4 PubMed studies which compare the overall healthfulness of typical Mediterranean/Italian diets when compared against typical meat-loving Western diets: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11894740?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7754990?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2 .PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_ RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15482626?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18630488?ordinalpos=6&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDoc Sum
Dear livnwel:
The 4 leading causes of death in the U.S. and Europe are: (1)heart disease, (2)cancer, (3)stroke, and (4)COPD. The following 3 PubMed studies suggest that COPD is a disease that is common only in Western nations and that eating more fruits, vegetables, and high-fat fish would prevent millions of deaths from COPD: http://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9846595?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEn trez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.PubMed_Discovery_RA&l inkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12192737?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=3&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10466172?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed
Dear livnwel:
Here are 9 more cancers that might be caused by the meat-loving Western(Weston) diet: Breast Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18669582?ordinalpos=5&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDoc Sum Uterine Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19091304?ordinalpos=9&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDoc Sum Bladder Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8850438?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2 .PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_ RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed Pancreatic Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16204695?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed Kidney Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10768591?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=3&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed Laryngeal Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12115553?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed Oral/Pharyngeal Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9688303?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2 .PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_ RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed Brain Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216998?ordinalpos=5&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDoc Sum Childhood Leukemia: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19144145?ordinalpos=6&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDoc Sum I hope I've adequately shown by now that the Weston A. Price Foundation's recommendation to keep eating plenty of animal protein because it's perfectly healthy for you to do so is very bad advice and has likely killed thousands of good people who didn't know the facts.
My Grandpa who lived in Southern Oklahoma on a farm most of his life ate bacon, sausage, eggs, biscuits with real butter and coffee for breakfast every morning. Dinner was some kind of meat, mashed potato's and gravy, vegtables, cornbread and coffee. For supper same type of thing. Meat, potato's etc. I remember he even chewed up the bones when he ate chicken. Never went to a dentist till he was in his 70's and the dentist couldn't believe how good his teeth were. (Maybe from the chicken bones?! Ha!) Hardly ever seen a doctor. He lived till about 90 years old . He ate in moderation too. So did my dad. Maybe that's part of the answer. All these studies can make you crazy. It seems like whatever they come up with they reverse it sooner or later. I remember at one time coffee was supposed to be bad for you and now they are saying how great it is at preventing a lot of diseases. Don't know what to and not to eat anymore. Hard to sort it all out........
Whoops! I forgot to mention several other cancers that many of you may be more afraid of dying from than the ones I've already mentioned: Cervical Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18444167?ordinalpos=15&itool=EntrezSyste m2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDo cSum Ovarian Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11588898?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed Stomach/Esophageal Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16507831?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed Lung Cancer(meat): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19141639?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=3&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed Lung Cancer(vegs): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19124497?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed Pancreatic Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18086772?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed Bladder Cancer(meat): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18264785?ordinalpos=8&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDoc Sum Bladder Cancer(vegs): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15237578?ordinalpos=18&itool=EntrezSyste m2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDo cSum
Wow, rmchavin, you sure are good at research! While studies are helpful and certainly have value, I can't live my life trying to follow the recommendations that come about as the result of all the studies that have been done. As rocknroll mentioned, the studies have too often been proven wrong a few years later by yet another study. My original point is that if we don't live in extremes, we may be much better off. A little bit of butter on those leafy green veggies will help the body use the vitamins more efficiently. A steady diet of bacon and eggs may not be a good idea, but that doesn't mean a piece of bacon once a month should haunt anyone. My family history is similar to rocknroll's where I watched parents and grandparents eat a well balanced diet full of homemade, good quality foods. They all died of old age with my grandparents living into their 80's. Something about their lifestyle worked for them. Research studies can be helpful, but they can also cause additional stress. There are studies to support just about any point you want to prove. That doesn't mean they are always right. Good luck with the research.
Although most dairy farmers and cattle ranchers are extremely good people, the Weston A. Price Foundation behaves as if they are receiving thousands of dollars in bribes from unethical elements in the animal protein industry. They contradict everything we have ever learned about how to prevent heart attacks and strokes from organizations such as the American Heart Association (AHA) or Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI). At every opportunity, the Weston A. Price Foundation seems to strongly endorse excessive consumption of dairy foods high in artery-clogging saturated fat and meat products high in cholesterol-oxidizing free radicals. If my theory were correct, then they would try to discourage the use of alternative protein sources which might replace meat and dairy as our primary protein source so that they could maximize sales. And sure enough, that's exactly what they do. They say extremely negative things about bone-friendly soy and soy products. They also say extremely negative things about antioxidant-rich cruciferous vegetables. Here are some of the bizarre nutritional claims made by the Weston A. Price Foundation: http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/benefits_cholest.html http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/howtransform.html http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/import_sat_fat.html http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/crucifers.html#toxins http://www.westonaprice.org/tour/index.html http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/oiling.html#animal http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html#benefits http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/pcnutrition.html
Whoops. There's something wrong with one of the web addresses above. I meant for this web address http://www.westonaprice.org/tour/index.html to get you to the letter that they mailed to President Barack Obama, but it might only work from my bookmark of it or only if I use Microsoft Internet Explorer browser. If you use Mozilla Firefox browser, try http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/obama-letter.pdf If that doesn't succeed in getting you to the letter that they mailed to President Obama, then try http://www.westonaprice.org/index.html That should get you to the page just prior to the Obama letter from which you can click to the Obama letter by yourself. Sorry for the confusion.
Feed 'em nutraloaf, I say!
Here's a link to the recipe: http://shuttersputter.blogspot.com/2008/03/nutraloaf.html
Mmmm. Good and good for you?
Everyone's body is different. As livnwel relates, you can drive yourself absolutely wild by trying to follow the newest diet theory.
I work with a conventional doctor (who takes copious notes on my natural practices-she must have a whole database on me by now), an alternative doctor who is an MD plus additional training and an associated nutritionist. My body type is just ridiculous: I am violently allergic to milk and most milk products, I have hypoglycemia so even delicious fruits can put me into a fit, have hypothyroidism so cruciferous vegetables paralyze my digestive system from the esophogus to the end of my intestines for days and I crave meat and butter.
Any type of wheat or rye flour makes me swell up with gas. Just eliminating wheat gives me a natural high. I substitute organic brown short grain Japanese rice. Sugary treats do the same thing to me so I don't use them. I really don't like chocolate all that much.
My nutritionist and I have worked out a program that is high on meats, poultry and some fish. I grow my own vegetables in the summer and buy organic veggies in the winter. (I am already eating Paris Island romaine and arugula from dormant seeds in my garden.) I know I have a can opener somewhere but I never use it. Everything is fresh. Plus-many vitamins and supplements also worked out with the alternative doctors.
I love butter with the vegetables--something genetic from my Irish ancestors most likely.
I do confess trying to completely change my eating habits with the Mediterranean, Ovo-veg, vegetarian programs but ended up getting sick and feeling terrible.
Instead of relying on so many conflicting reports, it is wise to go to a knowledgeable doctor who understands the role of nutrition and has some biochemical training or using a nutritionist who will coordinate with the doctor so everyone knows whom is saying what to whom.
We all agree the each of our personalities is unique. So is our chemistry. Find out about yours. It is a fascinating journey.
I believe our ancestors didn't have the time, money or resources to spend hours looking at what to eat or what not to eat - they just got on with it. They didn't have the labour saving devices we have today so there lives were often more physical.
They ate good wholesome food that they often grew themselves without all the additives and preservatives used today.
I still think a diet eaten in moderation is the answer, there are no right or wrong foods.
rmchavin - I admire your endless knowledge, but crikey do you actually have time to enjoy your life as well as doing all this research?
Here are 8 PubMed research studies from the National Library of Medicine that contradict the false propaganda from the Weston A. Price Foundation on saturated fat and heart disease: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8252690?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2 .PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_ RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1351198?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2 .PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_ RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7996999?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2 .PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_ RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19211817?ordinalpos=5&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDoc Sum http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735093?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_Title Search&linkpos=1&log$=pmtitlesearch3 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10584044?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15563444?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem 2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery _RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19150595?ordinalpos=14&itool=EntrezSyste m2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDo cSum
I read something from the Weston Price website a few weeks ago and thought it sounded plausible.* I lack experience reading scientific based articles nor do I have a scientific background with which to compare the information I read on the internet. How does one know whom to believe when one doesn't have the background? Everything written by one person or entity can be, and often is, countered by someone else with an opposite viewpoint.
While reading from another website, I found information that sounded promising, but it disturbed me that no one took credit for that website. And peridodically they had links to various sites selling supplements, books, etc. I had to surmise that someone put this site together to sell stuff.
I don't know whom to trust. I don't really trust my endocrinologist for bone issues. He just wants me to take my Fosamax and shut up.
I wish I had time to read (and understand) all the links that rmchavin has provided.
Sorry for going so far off topic. I, personally, would not like to step back in time.
Susan
* The stuff I read from the Weston Price website was not the pages that rmchavin linked above. Even I could recognize that hooey!
Juliemarie-you are the hero of this whole discussion. You have become your own advocate and worked with the professionals to get yourself on track. Congratulations! That's what it's all about. Doesn't matter what one study vs. another study says. Each of us needs to know our body and what it needs to help us achieve a high quality of life. Juliemarie is on to something!
Thank you, livnwel. I pursued this line of treatment because my body chemistry is difficult. A very talented GP. many years ago, pointed this out to me and saved my life when my body systems were closing down: hypothyroidism. Together, we devised a program that has been augmented by the doctors I go to for direction.
I am forever grateful and devoted. Today, I am well and so energized at 70! By the way, my windows sparkle today after the weekend cleaning.
Best to us all....... juliemarie
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