Coughing up Tissue

During the last week or so I have been coughing up some tissue that is a little bit bloody but does have some lung tissue in it along with what I can see is cancer.
I will be taking it into the lab myself for some testing for chemosensitivity.
Makes more sense to me to do that than go in for another CT scan to produce yet another CT guided biopsy to achieve more tissue for testing resulting in another collapsed lung with another chest tube that doesnt work right the first time, so lets put in another and then we can send you home.
Has anyone ever heard of coughing up tissue like that?
I am currently using alternative treatments along with high doses of IV vitamin C (which by the way has very excellent results, studies and research).
Dr Mark Levine from NIH has a very interesting report on this and is published on pubmed.
I do believe that the cancer is breaking up and coming out of my lungs.
I also know that cancer is very sticky and should not be breaking up the way it is if it is in its productive state and growing. Cancerous cells grab onto the good cells converting them into cancerous cells.
Any feedback would help.
Thanks

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Are you a doctor? I ask because how would you know it's tissue and looks like cancer? You do know that if it is tissue and the correct type to use for an assay test, it has to be there within 24 hrs.? I've never heard of this, so I would have to wonder if it's not something else. Good luck and take care, Judy

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yikes - I don't know what I could say to make you feel better - I'd be running to my ONC and screaming if it were me - guess not what you wanted to hear.....
k

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Well I am no doctor but with all of the stupid research I have done, books I have read, studies, reports, videos, seminars etc. I am becoming somewhat of a self supporting advocate in my own treatment to say the least.
I have seen all of the video from my own bronchoscopy and have seen what the cancer looks like on live lung.
The cancer appears to be white for the most part compared to the normal pinkish coloring of normal tissue.
It was rather interesting to have the pulomnologist walk me through through the videos and show what the cancerous cells looked like and the locations that coincided with the CT scan as well as the PET scan.
As far as the tissue goes, I doubt if it would be anything of the healthy nature, so in theory, would have to be cancerous tissues.
I will be taking it in for the assay testing.

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And yes I do know that it has to be fresh tissue and needs to be at the lab within 24 hours.
That is something that my oncologist apparantly didnt know or care to know about the first time I coughed something up last week.
Evidentally, the industry doesnt like the assay testing and is more pro drug slamming to generate income.
Makes much more sense to me to do the assay testing prior to chemo before wasting a bunch of time, money and radiation???

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I totally agree with Judy on this. You really do not know if it is lung tissue or tumor, and if it is NOT, you are going to be wasted thousands of dollars for an assay test......

I have coughed up stuff that looks like it could have been lung tissue and had that creepy brown red liver look to it, but I would not assume it is lung tissue as I am not a doctor.

It also has to be packed a certain way, meaning at the very least you need to get the transportation kit or packing instructions from the company you are sending it to.

Plus, the sample has to be a certain size.

You are taking a significant risk doing what you are doing. If you have not had a medianoscopy yet, that is the next step, and you most certainly need one, so your surgeon can get samples then, and send it right to a place like Rational Therapeutics.

Good luck.

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Thanks DMN for the input.
I will check in on that.
I do have a lab that does the assay testing here in town and am sure they can do the preliminaries to see if it is worth testing.
I would hardly think they would go straight ahead with all of the testing if they were to find it was bad tissue, but then again...?
There are no morals left in this world, so what I am thinking? Lol

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I think you do make a lot of sense.
I had the same thing it looked like a light color of liver and was blood tinged.
I agree with you that sensitivity testing is a good idea, and taking it in yourself can not possibly hurt in any way.
The best way is to have the actual tumor cells taken, and we do not know for sure this that is coughed up is actually tumor cells, you are assuming it is, and so did I.
I found with mine, it was an active infection of pneumonia both times.
I had it happen to me on two different occasions.
I think you are smart and doing what you can for yourself, but I also think you better talk with your oncologist, he, I doubt will even ask for the tissue.
Mine never wanted it, they just prescribed the antibiotics for the pneumonia.
they were right on the money, because after 2 rounds of antibiotics it killed the active pneumonia infection.
Bleeding stopped, as well as the coughing up of that tissue.
It is more than likely old white blood cells clumped together that you are seeing.
If you have read a lot of the immune system, you already know that the White cells clump and kill f invaders, those invaders could be pneumonia, and this is why you are seeing it.
Good luck, you are your own best advocate.
But it also helps to get the medical opinon on it too.
You want to get well.
God bless you,
Sandy

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Have you had any treatments yet? Or are you doing alternative? Take care, Judy

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Thanks for the info cuddles.
This makes sense to me, never thought about the white blood cells clumped together.
Interesting.
I have had pneumonia several times in the past but not this go around and now have the shot so wont run the risk of that anymore.
I had one round of carboplatum and alimpta Nov 22.
Since then I am running with the alternative for I really didnt have anything to loose.
Stage 4 NSCLC and chemo just dont have much in the line of survival and really not much in the line of response rates either.
Oh boy they might extend my days by 2 or 3 months but I will be sick the whole time.
Not sick right now and feel just fine.
A little bit short of breath at times but that comes back when I cough up these chunks of whatever.

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Well, my Albert came up in beige/tan pieces and later more liver colored, one piece was kind of rounded and looked like a peel outside liver and inside the beige. I am a nurse and have seen tumors first hand. As far as size and the lab being in town, well you can look up how much you need and also
they would decline if it is way too small. I'd say, go for it. If it works you have saved yourself an invasive procedure w risks of complications and so forth.
Everything to win, maybe some money to loose :)

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Yes--my husband also coughed up some tissue which caused me to be very, very concerned. It was pinkish-red. He thought this tissue was the tumor, but it also turns out that he now has pneumonia again--same lung as the lung cancer! He is now on antibiotics since last Tuesday & no more coughing up tissue--hmmmm. I'm just saying.

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TK,

I completely agree with doing the assay but, trust me, not even your docs can "eyeball" tissue and determine it's cellular composition.
Greg, gpawelski, is our resident authority on assay testing. He simplified so that even *I* could understand.

G

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I just want you to know I understand your concerns, and I think chemo and radiation put me in this predicament I have with my weakness, and general decline, however I also think had I not taken it, I would be dead.
I am in remission 5 years.
Without it who knows?
What one has to decide is what you are doing now.
It is tough and to do it again I can tell you, I would take the radiation all over again and the chemo.
I have to be honest here, I really would.
It is doable... I am the biggest baby i the world.
I cry over everything.
but I would do this again.
I also reccomend Lucanix vaccine for you, you can get it for compassionate use. No need to be in a trial with stage lV.
I think they would take you. No side effects, this is the good thing about it..
Read on how it works in the body, it is amazing.
Do you know anything about it?
If not, read up on it.
A good vaccine and it will keep you going quite a while until the cure comes out.
This is my opinion anyway.
Take care and I am praying you have a miracle.
I do not want to see you die..
God bless you,
Sandy

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I was not aware you had a testing place in town.

Thats make a bit of a difference - go for it then!

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Genoptix labs in San Diego is one of the laboratories that provide a "cell death" assay. If they analyze "fresh" live tissue in 3D conformation and profile the function of cancer cells (is the whole cell being killed regardless of the targeted mechanism or pathway), this tissue would be virtually worthless for accurate testing that would mimic what would happen in the body.

However, they also provide solid tumor workups using molecular testing. Gene and protein testing involve the use of dead, formaldehyde preserved cells, but are never exposed to chemotherapy drugs. It cannot tell us anything about uptake of a certain drug into the cell or if the drug will be excluded before it can act or what changes will take place withing the cell if the drug successfully enters the cell.

Genetic profiles (molecular testing) cannot discriminate differing levels of anti-tumor or anti-microvasular activity occuring among different targeted therapy drugs. Nor can it identify situations in which it is advantageous to combine a targeted drug with other types of conventional cancer drugs. It never tests the drug(s) against the tumor cells. It examines a single process within the cell or a relatively small number of processes. The aim is to tell if there is a theoretical predisposition to drug response.

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