It seems that many of us are greatly concerned about our condition and our diet. We all go to various sources and read what is stated, and we then (at least some of us) end up quite confused. Do not eat this; do not eat that; no one knows whether or not it is good or bad for you if you have cancer. My favorite is it feeds the cancer--not so says the NCI; but very much so says this group or that person. Then, one might be told that sugar is not the problem, but insulin is actually the problem. Eat green; eat orange; eat nuts; and don't eat nuts.
We also have the family and friends' recommendations about diet and nutrition. My wife says I have to eat to keep up my strength. My Chinese friend recommends shallots and bitter onions, while my informed friends in the US remind me that I am not Chinese. My niece tells me to eat or drink some kind of tea, which I bought and tried--really nasty stuff. My oldest daughter says eat lots of ginger and something else; whatever the something else is, I don't like it, and I am not real thrilled with ginger. Ice tea without sugar--I hate it. Diet coke, while much better than it once was, still is not something I want. Then, there is the mostly fish and greeen vegetable diet; I love fish, but discovered when initially diagnosed, I did not like fish 7 days a week. Also, I am not so sure about the health benefits of mercury poisoning--tuna, swordfish, grouper, mackerel, and other species of my favorite finfish contain mercury. My onc. says if I consume sugar, I might as well put a 357 under my chin and pull the trigger--not real pleased with this assessment! I do, however, really like watermelon and most other melons, greeen grapes, peaches, cherries, apples, and most citrus fruits (REALLY like grapefruit but because of high blood pressure, not suppose to eat that either).
Last, there are the darn books and papers. Read this; read that; don't read this; and don't read that! Some doctors tell us to eat what we want but in moderation, while some say quality of life is as important as diet--so eat what you like.
I know! Whine! Whine ! and more Whine!
Given so much confusion and conflicting information, one must ask "What do we do?" Unfortunately, at my age, I find more friends coming down with cancer. I tell them to be appreciative of what their family members and friends advise; say thank you; but do not pay much attention to them. Advise them to talk to their Onc. and the affiliated nutritionist. Be careful of stuff available on-line, particularly the info usually offering something for sale. Practice common sense in diet; get exercise if possible; read texts by respected professionals but that there may be something to diet and alternative treatments--but be on guard for what is offered; and try to maintain some sense of humor.
Jim
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Time to Reexamine Diet and Nutritional Advice
18 replies
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- By debra1
- Posted February 17, 2009 at 3:29 pm
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Well said. This is such a hot topic.....opinions from one extreme to another.
- By gsjelibean
- Posted February 17, 2009 at 3:54 pm
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I agree, well said. I have Stage IV NSCLC with mets to the bone and brain. I intend to eat whatever I want, anytime I want. Not one of my cancer team ever mentions diet except protein and keep hydrated. I like their attitude. God Bless.
- By Ramona
- Posted February 17, 2009 at 4:41 pm
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Life is short and there are no guarantees. I agree that everyone should eat what they want. What I choose to eat is based on what will increase my odds in every way possible within the limits of what I can afford. I have done and continue to do a lot of research to find what is real and useful in this quest. That is what makes me happiest. I believe each person should be allowed to freely make their own decisions. If I can contribute to their making informed decisions I am glad to do so but only if they are interested. Those who are not interested are free to ignore anything regarding the subject. That is what most of us do with subjects in which we are not interested. To each his own.
- By diamond
- Posted February 17, 2009 at 6:25 pm
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Please understand that I am not advocating eating whatever one wants. Instead, I am trying to state the available info is extremely confusing. WE do know about the basics--protein, carbos, greens, etc. and all that stuff. We also know that too much of a good thing is not always a good thing. I have reviewed some of the peer-reviewed literature and found faulty statistics and inadequate analysis. I know that such limitations are common to many professions.
The point here is the recommendations and literature appear very confusing, and we should be better advised. We should be given proper information by professionals; professionals , by the way, who do not have a certain bias about the consumption of foods. If they have some bias, they should so state that bias or preference. Also, individuals should make their own choices. What is troublesome, however, is that some individuals are trying to make decisions based on available information, and the available information is often confusing!
For example, how do I know what foods enhance my odds of surviving longer? Or what foods or liquids enhance the odds of not surviving longer? And even if some study indicates a positive correlation between some food item and survivability, how do I know that might apply to me. Maybe I really am different, and thus, will have a different response to some food item.
My concern is a genuine request for help; it is not a criticism of anyone's beliefs or practices.
Jim
Jim
- By susie2
- Posted February 17, 2009 at 9:33 pm
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My advice is to seek out a good naturopath, only they can tell you what is the best path for you in regards to diet and nutrition. There are so many good books out there too. Anti-cancer by Servan-schreiber or patrick Quillan beating cancer with nutrition. Start with those, the thing is you have to believe in it in order for you to be able to change your diet and build that immune up in order for you to start the healing process. Nutrition is just one part, i still believe in treatment but also the mind too.
I can tell you i am still here 2 years later with stage 1V and i have energy and look healthier than i did before i was diagnosed (go figure).
Susie x
- By Marylou1
- Posted February 17, 2009 at 9:55 pm
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Hi Jim:
I am one of those people who try to eat a well balanced diet. I do not deny myself anything. It is important to eat well to maintain a good immune system. It is equally important for everyone to eat and/or drink what they think will help them the most.
For a little over a year I have been on Tarceva and have had 4 NED scans in a row. I am 71 years young and doing very well.
I am all for maintaining a sense of humor with this disease, so how about we meet at the Golden Arches for Burgers and Fries?
***Many Hugs and Best Wishes***
Marylou
- By Ramona
- Posted February 17, 2009 at 10:06 pm
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OMG, sorry. I am getting thin skinned from all the floggings. Looked at in that light you are saying something entirely different than the way I took it.
You are right in that it is difficult to know which way to go compounded by the immediacy of the problem. And we know too that we only have this one chance.
And then does one spend all one's time on this?
I have had an interest in nutrition and suplementation for decades. Obviously, what I had been doing in the past was not adequate for me. But it did give me a head start in knowledge with which to proceed. I already had a lot of books and that was helpful. Others have generously shared knowledge with me in the last year as well. My onc says I am obsessed with my disease. Duh, yeh but we are talking about MY life.
If I had my druthers I would go spend a few weeks at a time at one of those wonderful spa places for people like me that cost tons of money and let others take care of the situation for me. Unfortunately, the dx has been a financial disaster.
Instead I have and continue to do all the research I can and the grunt labor to make it happen. That means also evaluating to the best of my ability the basis of the claimed research. There is a lot of nonsence out there too. That is why I keep recommending that Blaylock book. Blaylock has a scientifically trained mind, he is a retired neurosugeon backing up what he says with solid research which he explains and references. I have not found any other author writing about my dx who is that comprehinsive and meticulous.
David Servan-Schreiber, Anti Cancer A New Way Of Life, is also a doctor but a phyciatrist. His book is more fun but not specific about exactly what to do and why. He is kind of cute, a cancer survivor and the current media golden boy. Alternative Magazine's Definitive Guide to Cancer is written by nutritionists from Cancer Ceners of America and by committee. I think it quite good but too enclined to not offend the oncs. When it conflicts with Blaylock I find the Blaylock reasoning better. Brillant thinking about anything comes from individuals rather than committees.
We all know doctors in general do not have much of any training in traditional or other nutrition, perhaps 5 hours alotogether, so unless I have reason to believe they have made a serious effort to learn about it, that is the last place I would go for the best in cancer diets.
Once upon a time I was a financial planner with doctors as clients. I learned quickly why they were famous for poor investments. It was they figured they were smarter than most anyone so therefore there money deserved more than anyone elses. Never mind they new less than nothing about the subject. The only people they trusted for financial informartion were other doctors. They figured they could learn in minutes what I had spent years to understand. After all, they were really smart.
The City of Hope radiation nutritionist told me radiation burns an additional 500 calories per day along with a lot of other things it burns. She said I needed protein 3x per day as building blocks for the body to repair. I thought that good advise and was glad she had mentioned it. She also gave me samples of Ensure and Boost. I read the ingredient list and was appalled by the large amount of sugar. When I asked about it she said yes well it was a tradeoff to make it high calorie. Most everyone who gets radiation and many who get chemo drink that stuff. Yet if you read Blaylock you will understand why that is a really bad idea.
You mention advise from friends, relatives, etc. As far as I can tell, most of what you got was good. There are proven super foods. Ginger is one of them. I don't like ginger tea at all. But a tablespoon finely diced and buried in my made from scratch oatmeal is really okay along with a lot of other things.
One of the things most everyone seems to agree on is that sugar is not good though some for different reasons. Neither are artificial sweeters. However, there is stevia, xiletol and agave. The first two are available in packets and have no sugar at all in them but taste like it. As for the NCI, I do not have the time to wait the 20 years their assorted double blind studies will take until they approve.
There is consensus on some things such as multicolored vegetables of deep orange, red, yellow, green, and green leafy. There is general agreement on green tea being anticancer. Garlic and all onions are super foods even if you are not Chineese. Small fish are recommended precisely because they have not had the chance to store as much mercury. Was that bitter melon you meant? I know about it but have not quite figured out what to do with it yet. Dark berries: blueberries, black raspberries, cherries, strawberries, black elderberries, etc., are super foods. Apples & onions have a lot of quarcitin which is super. I get my bio super curcumin from Life Extension and have 1 capsule 3 x daily with extra virgin olive oil. Mushrooms are super foods, especially shiitaki and mataki which also happen to taste good.
The problem with a lot of the bad foods including sugar is that they cause inflamation in the body. The body is less able to regulate inflamation as we get older anyway. I don't think it is a coincidence that the beast attacks so many of us about age 60.
Yes, there is the problem of what is specifically the best for you. We do the best we can on that level. Yes, we should be given better advise by professionals. I would much rather I did not have to work so hard sifting through so much nonsence to get information that should be readily available. What I have discovered as I got deeper into it is that as with everything there are patterns. That helps.
I write this because I hope I can help someone who is reading this improve their outcome in some way. In the mean time I am trying to improve mine. It just makes sense that garbage in results in garbage results. I want to get the most bang for intake buck that I can manage. That means high density nutrition and eleminating foods that sabotage my goal. Some people decide all this interfers with their quality of life. I have no quarrel with their choice. It just is not mine. In the mean time their are no guarantees in life or in this and some people are going to be lucky or otherwise no matter what they do. The best I can do is to improve my odds. And I too am stunned with what is happening to some of my friends lately.
- By susie2
- Posted February 17, 2009 at 10:27 pm
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Ramona you are amazing i havent read the blaylock book, infact am reading The China Study which is rather difficult to digest but good.
Definitely with you on the diet thing, its funny my oncologist always says "keep doing what you are doing" but never actually asks what infact i am doing.
Like Kris Carr says "make Juice not War"
XX
- By Ramona
- Posted February 18, 2009 at 12:54 am
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My oncologist told me to take a really good multivitamin. I guess for an onc that is a big concession. My surgeon said he would be drinking the blue stuff too, when he caught me with my blueberry whey concoction, if he had what I did. That was an amazing concession but then he is the only one who hands on sees inside people.
I have seen the China Study quoted a few times but did not know there was a book. What do you think of the book so far? Worth getting? Borrow from the libarary?
- By diamond
- Posted February 18, 2009 at 8:39 am
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Thanks Ramona et al.:
I think all the comments and suggestions did a great service for many individuals on this list. I had noticed the same topic of diet and nutrition coming up. Even many of the questions, by members on this list for a good while, were the same. My own experiences indicated considerable confusion about the good, bad, and ugly of diet.
I now have considerably more information, particularly to make better informed decisions.
Thanks all!
Jim
- By susie2
- Posted February 18, 2009 at 11:02 am
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Ramona i wouldnt buy the china study, but you can borrow it from your library. Unfortunatly there was a huge wait on it and i lucked out as my naturopath have a library and i borrowed it from them. I have almost every book its funny i dont have blaylocks, i am hunting that out this week.
X
- By KatInNM
- Posted February 18, 2009 at 11:19 am
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Ramona, you rock! Your approach reminds me a lot of mine, from 10 years ago--trying to read and implement everything I possibly could to improve my odds--except you have it a lot more together and express it a lot better than I ever have. It worked for me, and I pray and believe it will for you, too.
God bless us all.
Kathy
- By drawing3d
- Posted February 18, 2009 at 12:14 pm
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Ramona, you absolutely DO rock as Kathy says. And it is amazing that you continue to write these amazingly long dissertations almost every single day! I wears me out sometimes, watching you "go" :)
For everyone who wants to argue the merits of blueberries or foods they find "distasteful", I wonder did they argue as heatedly over which chemo poison they would allow be ministered to them? I mean, afterall, there comes a time when we must grasp and accept the concept that there is NO MEDICAL CURE and also no guarantees that ANY of this will improve our odds, increase our longevity. This is why we EAT GOOD FOODS, because it is ALL we can do to help ourselves. So if someone wants to live it up in the bars, eating cookies and cheese-cake, hey, go for it...but please quit asking the few of us who are TRYING to do good works not only for ourselves but for any and all persons who desperately want to TRY and improve their odds to JUSTIFY ourselves. Quit beating us up...just go eat your beloved cookies.
The argument isn't with US, it is with the lack of information that is GUARANTEED. Again, there is none. Not medically, nutritionally, physically or any other ly. All we can do is what Ramona, myself, and a handful of others are doing. Reading to learn about it, then making up your own minds. We are afterall adults here.
We are so used to being raised to believe that if we are sick we go to the good doctor who makes it all better. Our tough luck is that the doctors have NOTHING to fight our disease with and they know less about nutrition. As I write this, MD Anderson has on staff a doctor/scientist who is doing nothing but researching the merits of brocolli. But I am not going to hang around waiting for his report before taking the plunge and eating brocolli/brocolli sprouts - even though I can't stand the way they taste. I do not whine about it and moan because I'd rather eat a cookie, I eat/drink the nasty stuff 3 times every single day. And I am so grateful to be as Susie2 says...still here, still kickin' feeling wonderful and happy!
Yes, God bless us all,
Ellen
- By blujonny
- Posted February 18, 2009 at 1:03 pm
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Hi Diamond, I always fall back on science and detailed testimonials, not just suggestions and recommendations. If there's good conclusive info on PubMed, the medical journals site, and if I can find plenty of testimonials (online) which aren't hype, then I will seek it out. I believe in being reasonable with your diet and base it on principle not fads. Don't do anything extreme and only incorporate foods that are stimulating to you. Err on the healthy side but within reason and go with your traditional eating style. And you can't go wrong with conclusive scientific studies. I've got my dad started on some stuff that I can really back up from real science and results, and not by way of clever marketing or through the grapevine.
- By diamond
- Posted February 18, 2009 at 1:27 pm
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Obviously, the subjects of diet, nutrition, and cancer are of considerable importance to many individuals. I do state, however, that I did not observe any reference by anyone on this list suggesting "eat whatever one wants" or a request to justify personal consumption habits. I still remain fascinated with this entire subject and believe it is worthy of considerable discussuion--if for no other reason than to offer information to individuals interested in their own diet and nutrition.
I truly thank all for their excellent recommendations! I suspect that this discussion not only helped me, but also helped (or will help) many other individuals!
Jim
There is a tremendous amount of available information on diet and nutrition, but less available about diet, nutrition, and cancer. Info available from NCI tends to be a bit overwhelming. Info from some sites lacks adequate scientific credibility or foundation. This site appears to have some individuals extremely knowledgeable about diet, nutrition, and cancer, and those individuals have much to offer those of us who frankly are ignorant about diet, nutrition, and cancer.
Regarding my choice of chemo: I was even dumber about the types of chemo than I am about diet and nutrition. Like many individuals receiving chemo, I imagine that decision was made by the doctor and various biological conditions. I also had no previous experience with chemo.
I did, however, have lots of experience with food, and I know the items I like and those I do not like. I would never recommend that anyone else adopt my diet (eat or not eat the same as I do) or exercise program. I would always advise someone to talk to their onc. and food nutrition expert.
For nearly 40 years, I have done the majority of cooking and food shopping for my household. I had relatively good exposure to diet and nutrition in college and as an athelete, as a much younger man. I did not, however, have much knowledge about diet, nutrition, and cancer. My overall diet, for myself and my family, was well balanced--red meat (some); I stayed away (still do) from pork; chicken and other poultry; lots of healthy (non mercury) type fish such as cod, haddock, flounder, and other species--even small quantities of tuna and swordfish; cheese and other dairy stuff; nuts; fresh and processed vegetables (lots of broccoli, asparagus, and spinach); and lots of fresh fruit (mostly seasonal or items from South America). There were nights of no meat--I called them potato night. Like many families, we had our share of fast food-junk food over time. I stayed away from fried foods, except for the occasional item like fries.
- By Ramona
- Posted February 19, 2009 at 6:15 pm
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You make a really valid point about choices in types of chemo. I had not thought about that. Thanks.
- By mitziger
- Posted June 27, 2009 at 5:47 pm
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ooh, I don't even want to make comments on this, but have to make one. Why isn't your wife taking over some household duties for you to let you recouperate? Seems like you have treated her like a princess and you need her help now. She has too much time on her hands. Sorry, but this bothered me a lot. May she see the light and help you. Mitziger
- By tymlesklas
- Posted July 28, 2009 at 3:57 pm
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Yea for sense of humor!!! I share you sentiments exactly! I was told I could eat anything and even drink alcohol if I felt like it! Cheers!
L
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