Ready for Hospice? Confused and scared daughter

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This is my first time posting. I can tell this is a very supportive community. My mom was diagnosed July '07 with SCLC. At the time, it was limited to one lung. She immediately started chemo (4 rounds, can't remember which drugs but I think one was Avastin) followed by radiation (about 34 treatments). She was declared NED in November '07, and docs recommended PCI which she did in January. All good scans until August '08, when she was having dizziness, nausea, etc. MRI showed a tumor in brain stem (cerebellum) which was causing motor problems. Immediately began taking steroid (horrible side effects---swelling, loss of strength in large muscles, esp. legs, etc). She also completed 4 weeks of Intensely Modulated Radiation Therapy (IMRT) to the brain stem to control symptoms and prevent further mets. After last treatment, she ended up in ICU with supraventricletachycardia (racing heart), atrial fibrillation, and extremely low blood pressure. Doctors felt that heart condition probably is from the lung radiation from last year, and did not recommend any corrective procedures or surgeries due to her compromised health from the cancer. She was released to the care of her oncologist, who agreed with my mom that she is too weak for more treatment, and so she advised my mom begin hospice.

My mom is struggling with this and does not want to begin. I think she is scared by what hospice means for her prognosis. I know she and my dad (her primary caregiver) are also concerned about starting hospice care and then having the benefits "run out" (according to their insurance, they only get 4 months of in home hospice care). This is a valid concern on their part, but I am concerned she is not receiving any hospice benefits which could be so valuable right now (for both her and my dad). Also, I am very concerned because she is so depressed, never leaves home, has limited mobility and takes what I consider a high dose of Ativan for anxiety. She is often "loopy" from the meds (I guess it could be from the tumor as well), and while I know it eases her mental pain, it often seems like she is not "all there". Do any of you have experience with this, specifically a patient who is resistant to hospice, and also one who is very dependent on anti-anxiety? I feel that my dilemma is this: I want to be positive, encouraging and hopeful for my mom, but I also want to respect her wishes and the way she chooses to deal with the process. She says things like, "I just want this to be over." And I do not know how to respond. Again, do I encourage her and say, "Don't give up, Mom" or is that pushing her when she feels like she has had enough? I hope this all makes some sense. Thanks in advance for any advice.

20 replies

Hello. I'm so sorry you have to be here, but I hope you can find some much needed support. I think you should start by having a hospice meeting. Get the folks in there to talk to her. See what they say. They may be able to convince your mom of the benefit. Also, remind her that people can come off hospice! It's not all or nothing. If she improves to the point that she could renew treatment, she certainly can. Spin it like it will give her and your dad a break. Having someone to help with the day to day....

You and your parents are in my thoughts.

Thank you, hopefuldaughter. I like your name :)

I don't know exactly what to say. My dad - ex-sclc with mets to liver/bones/nodes etc....just finished 6th round chemo and is taking a break. We are fortunate that he is very positive and optimistic - now, and has made all choices on his own. That is the main thing to remember - let your mother make her own decisions as long as she can. My dad had some depression and confusion from meds when first diagnosed, and I feel for you and what you are going thru. It isn't easy to go thru this battle, but it is even harder when facing it with depression.

It sucks that "insurance" has to figure into our decisions during our fight with cancer. I feel for your position and for you father as the caregiver to have to deal with all of this. Prayer is the one thing that has gotten me through this to date , and I am praying for your family.

Be strong, and don't forget to take care of yourself also. Your Mom and Dad will need you!

Pam

Thanks, Pam, for your prayers and support. I am so glad I found this group.

Thanks, I like yours too! I remember shortly after I joined I saw someone who posted as hopefuldaughter1. I think there are lots of us out here! Hang in there.

Pam

You should make an appointment with a Hospice social worker right away. They can definitely ease your mind and your Mom's. Your Mom is struggling because at this point she realizes that she is looking at the end of her life. Can you even imagine what that must feel like? I can't, but I watched my Mom with the same struggles. It's hard enough for us (family members) to prepare for this, but for the patient it must be terrifying. No matter what you believe there is still the unknown.

As far as insurance, I'm positive that Hospice is free to anyone who doesn't have the money to pay. Does your Mom have medicare in addition to her insurance? Medicare also pays for Hospice. This is why you need to contact them. It will ease your mind a great deal to get the answers you need. I also want to add that Hospice is such a wonderful organization. They are there for the family as well as the patient. I know you will be so impressed with their skills, knowledge and compassion.

I can so relate to your dilemma. My Mom said to me, just about 3 days before she died, that "It wasn't supposed to be this bad". Meaning I guess, that the treatments weren't supposed to be so difficult. I can't even tell you how that made me feel. To make things even worse my Mom was terrified of dying. I was with her when she passed and I have to tell you it was so very peaceful and quiet. I hope all fear had left her. That was something I hoped I would not be part of, but now I am so grateful I was. And I'm glad I could be with her while she made that final journey. She was with me when I got here and I felt like she needed me to be with her when she left.

I hope this answers some of your concerns. It's my personal experience, there is no right or wrong. Now, you have to be there for your Mom in any way you can and any way she needs. It will absolutely be one of the hardest things you will ever do in your life, but it's your final gift to your Mom. Be sure to tell her you love her often - she knows it, but you'll be glad you did.

Stay strong - for yourself and your family. If I can ever help you, please just say so.

When we picked the hospice company for my FIL, we went with a company that offers both basic home health care and hospice. When a patient has limited hospice coverage, they can bill it under 'home care' until that benefit is exhausted and then start billing under 'hospice care'. Often times you can get a year of coverage.

I am a stage 4 NSCLC 3 years since DX. I can't relate to be the caregiver fears but coming from my personal point of view, I take Ativan when ever I get anxious. I can take up to 6- 0.5mg a day but usually one at night calms me down. I am also on Lexapro since early on, it's an anti deprssant, which is surprising to my friends and family since I v'e always been an up beat - glass half full kind of girl. Be strong for your mom and dad, Your strength and support is what is the most needed. When her chemo brain clears and it will, she will be able to take more control of decisions and she will decide to do what's best for her family. I know I did. Keep us posted, WE CARE. Marie T

Thanks to everyone for your heartfelt replies. I knew this would be a difficult journey, but it helps to have guidance along from the way from others going through the same thing. I plan to call Hospice today and see what I can find out. I know that my mom has met with one of the nurses or social workers for an orientation, but she hasn't officially signed on, again for fear of running out of benefits. To answer a question someone asked, no, she does not have Medicare or Medicaid. She and my dad are both 62, and are using her company's health insurance. However, now she may actually qualify for Medicaid if she goes on disability. I'll have to look into that.
Again, thanks so much to all for the answers, prayers and support.

Dear Bestrong, your mom and family are in my thoughts and prayers, although we haven't been down this road yet, I understand your struggles with wanting what is best for your parent but also not wanting to give up. As far as insurance goes, do what is best for your Mom to make her as comfortable as possible and pain free and the money stuff will work itself out. Sorry you have to go through all this.

Stacie

Dear One:

I understand how hard this is for you and your family. The reality is Hospice is a wonderful option, however, it is a difficult reality to grasp as a patient - especially given all they have endured to fight the disease.

My mom went through a very similar path with her SCLC and they didn't want to go through Hospice...yet.... Psychologically, it had an impact on my parents that they must accept the disease as having won and defining her time left as limited. Which in her case it was. Within weeks, mom had a convulsion at home and passed a few days thereafter. But until then, she lived life her way without a defined timeline. I may have made the same decision to be honest.

As a caregiver, knowing that the future is uncertain and the present is so hard on your loved ones - well - is truly painful. I could have forced my opinion and clearly paint the future for my mom and dad, but in the end, it wouldn't have mattered. What matters is allowing them to make their own decisions and supporting those decisions to the best of your ability.

Be there with your mom and dad as often as your life permits, love as intensly as you dare and have the faith of a child. You can't change the path your mom is on - but you can love and support her.

My heart and prayers are with you and your family.

E

Its a hard decision to make. My boyfriend's mom died of LC 2 years ago, and hospice came in the last week. Looking back now, they could have been such a help to her and us if we had called earlier. I now wonder if its time to check it out on my Dad's behalf. He was dx'ed w/ ESCLC in May of this year. The past week I've seen him on the decline. I hope I have the courage to do it when the time comes. Check on the medicaid/medicare thing. In some states you qualify if you have a catastrophic illness. I know Scott's Mom did get medicaid, and she still had her insurance from her job intact. It doesn't cost a cent to make the call and find out.
I hope you can find peace during the holidays. I'm here if you ever want to chat.

Cindy

I am SO sorry you have to be here, and worrying about hospice on top of it all. I wish there was something I could say or do that would make it all better.

Right now, I can only pray for clarity and peace for you and your mom. Even though I am the patient now, I can remember my mom not saying it but acting "I just want this to be over." It broke our hearts.

Please take care of yourself too.
***Hugs****
Marylou

When my dad was diagnosed he took me aside (I am the oldest of 5, age 46), and told me he was being pragamatic. He wanted me to help mom, etc. I told him not to give up. He said, Fine...but I have some things to take care of , to tell you. "Your mom doesn't wnat to believe that I cmight ide." I listened. THAT is what helps. Listen to your mom. Just tell her whatever she wants, needs, physically, emotionally, you are there and always will be.

Sorry fot the typos..pragMATIC, etc...I am stressed today...

Dear Bestrong - I am so sorry to hear of your struggle. My husband was dx with SCLC in May of 2007. He has had several different treatments - but bottom line - it has moved to the brain and they cannot do anymore radiation. The doctor said he was going to refer us to Hospice. We met with them and they are really nice people - but we have not signed up with them as of yet. I guess it is part denial - if they come in then it will feel that we are giving up. I am struggling everyday to figure out what to do. For the time being we are hanging in there and doing what we can ourselves. I can only say - support your parents in whatever they decide is best for them.

I will be thinking of you - I know it is hard - but try to stay strong.

First, I am sorry your family is having to go through this ordeal. Second Hospice is a wonderful organization and I would strongly encourage you to at least let them come into your mother's home and visit with her, your dad and other family members.
Have your questions written down and be open and honest about any fears you have. There will be no questions that are stupid and none that do not deserve to be answered.

As a nurse, I have observed Hospice working not only with the patient, but the family as a unit. There are many aspects of care and support they can offer. Dying is a very private thing, but, it is also a process that doesn't have to be scary, painful, or
done alone. Hospice does not mean that they will pass the next day. They are there for months as support system and a conduit between your loved one and the health team.

Part of allowing Hospice in, is admitting that life here is probably limited. If her doctor advised it,
they know her status. Hard decisions to make and one which our family made two years ago.

Praying for your family. Jolene

I'm sorry about your situation and I can relate to it. I was in remission in July then end of Oct scan showed two lesions to the brain (one of them being in the cerebellum) Just prior to going over results with doctor I fell in the middle of the night and really banged myself up good. Doctor called my daughter and told her to come, that it was time for hospice. I was floored! He actually made the appt for them to come to house. They were very nice and helpful, but I was not ready to sign. I just did not think that I was that bad physically. That was a month ago and I just got back from a week long cruise and feel pretty darn good.
Julie

Julie--
Thanks for your post. Yours was one of the first stories I read when I found this site, and I am so happy to hear that you enjoyed your trip! You certainly sound like a fighter. Stay strong!
Best to you,
Tracy

Thanks, Marie, for your thoughtful reply last week when I was struggling with the Hospice decision. Well, we started hospice care on Friday, and of course they are wonderful. Unfortunately, mom's condition has deteriorated dramatically in the last couple of days. She cannot walk, can barely speak and is having trouble swallowing. She has eaten almost nothing for the past couple of days. My brother, sister and I have been with her and have told her she can go whenever she is ready. My dad has also been with her but I think he is just not ready to let go. This is such a horribly painful process, and everyone goes through it differently; I guess you just have to allow it to work itself for everyone. My sister did talk with him to say he should let her know he'll be okay. You mentioned your mom was afraid of dying, and I feel my mom is the same way. I don't know if she is afraid of what she's leaving behind (worried about dad and us), afraid of the unknown or afraid of the actual dying process. I'm sure it's a combination of all three. Yes, this is the hardest thing I have ever gone through. Thanks again for your kind words of support.
Tracy

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