Ascites

I haven't been in pain and the liver has shrunk since my new/old chemo. That's good. I've had the equivalent of two rounds.

This is my usual week off, by Friday I'll be missing and I'll be gone 2 weeks then have my "first" of the "third" round a few days early, when I get back. Planning on the CT to be scheduled at that time (27th).

I hate being a nurse. I am realizing I have some symptoms of ascites, including the fluid in my arms the increase in girth (I haven't gained, just figured I've lost muscle tone).

And I've been very short of breath especially when bending over even though my lungs are perfectly clear. That's the biggie. My (family) doctor is back from maternity leave but I can't see her til the 29th. I don't know that I would want to see the oncologist before I get back, on the 26th. Should I call though and see if we can schedule that MRI in the next couple days or for the day after I see him? I know I'll insist we schedule it even if he doesn't offer, but it sometimes takes a few days.

I don't think I'll call before I leave -- this is the closest thing I have had to a vacation in many, many, years and the first time my daughter and I will be alone together ever. I wouldn't miss it for the world. And I'll get to meet my cousin-in-law who has this as well, figured one or both of us -- well I guess we could meet n the next world but it'll be fun to meet in this one.

This scares me, again -- everyone has drawbacks, most worse than mine, and frankly I bounce back way quickly. But I wasn't fond of liver mets and I'm especially not fond of the thought of ascites.

If the mets has cleared up, if ascites is removed will it stay gone?

That and my brain are 'worry' points. I will be getting a new brain MRI 11/2 and seeing the neurosurgeon that day -- but the concerning part isn't a repeat it's the word thing. You know the thing -- where you can't find the word. That seems to be especially especially bad lately. And very short-term memory -- like it goes not out the window but half-way, I can usually find it again before it goes all the way but that depends on when I try to retrieve it. This feels like more than chemo brain.

I seriously doubt I'll do whole brain radiation. The ascites could make it a moot point, if it exists it almost certainly would be malignant, right? The stats are like 8 months to a year with ascites. Yea, I know all about stats. Mom lasted 8 months with hers, maybe that's what I have in my mind. But she wasn't in the best of health.

Usually I ask for stories and I get prayers. Clearly, that has been the right answer so far.

But can anyone tell me an ascites story, with or without the happy ending? Can it go away and NOT come back? I don't know if it is significant enough to drain, but if it affects my breathing ... maybe. Something is. Oh darn I'm convincing myself to call and talk to the nurse. I still want comments about ascites.

By Granny888
Posted October 13, 2009 at 2:42 pm
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It's an expected effect of liver failing and my liver has been a mess.

No, he hasn't diagnosed ascites.

I have some symptoms of ascites and I didn't want to call him til I came back since I was going to have a ct then anyway. But since it involves my breathing I do have a call out and have talked to the nurse, she'll be talking to him shortly.

By cards7up
Posted October 13, 2009 at 2:44 pm
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Glad to see you made the call. Hate to see you go on vacation then have major problems. Good luck and take care, JC
P.S. let us know what the doctor says.

By Granny888
Posted October 13, 2009 at 4:47 pm
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Oh yea, I'd like to think I'd wait -- I'd like nothing to interfere with my only vacation. No one has called back that means it'll be the doctor, shortly after hours.

I called because I know the breathing could very well be ascites or heart failure. I know it's not the lungs. But then again, Chicago is not a bad place to find yourself laid up with complications of cancer, right?

In any event I still want ascites stories.

By cuddles53
Posted October 15, 2009 at 2:58 am
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Your fear is my fear. I also started with lots of extra weight, I know you said yours wasn't weight, but me being a nurse too notices things. Like the increase in size in my waist line, like the increased right ankle , and pedal part of the foot, a lower leg, all taut, shiny and 2 plus pitting edema, this goes down on occassion but this time just won't go down anymore, even with my foot elevated. I try to stay away from salt, but I can't help notice my arms getting bigger, and feeling tighter, but this belly of mine, ascites,. I was told to lay down flat, rub the wrist on yor belly and see if it goes in a wave motion, if it does, it means ascites. My duahter is in nursing school right now and this is their assessment for ascites, I was nevefr taught that one. Mine did do this, it didn't jiggle like fat. I am afraid of the ascites too, but... here is what I think you wanted to hear. I was so afraid of this fluid build up, I told both docs, and the oncologist, none of them took any notice. finally when I had my CT scan done a few weeks ago, I told them to please check the kidneys, and liver real good because of the fluid, no problems in liver or kidneys, so what next, nothing from them, so I go to another doctor one in the office of my regular attending who is very thorough, he gives me an EKG, a breathing test, orders an echo and tons of blood work. I also was checked to see if my right leg had a blood clot. I went for an ultrasound of the right leg, no clot, good news! So what is causing the fluid? Now being checked for what I believe to be CHF,and pulmonary hypertension. This is what this very smart doc thinks it is. So I go today for the echo, and it can't be done, they can not see my heart due to lack of air from lungs, and also can't do other side near heart, since my tumor is blocking it, so it will have to go by the blood work and symptoms I guess. I am on a water pill which is HCTZ mixed with spironaldactone, It took all the swelling from the legs so far, in just 3 days, my breathing is a little better. He tells me he thinks I am cured of lung cancer from my reports. but.. I said to him I will die form complications with my lungs right? and he said yes, in 5 to 10 years this is about all your lungs will be able to take. My breathing test showed lungs of an 86 year old, and I put out 1/2 quart of air, a normal person puts out 2 quarts of air, He said my right lung is so badly damaged from radiation, it is like I had it surgically removed, and the other lung is not functioning too well due too so much emphysema. I am not looking too good right now, either. I hear you when you say the ascites scares you, it does me too. I did not know that with ascites the time is so short. I have had many patients with ascites, but do not know what outcome they had since they all went home from the hospital.
i hope this has helped, please don't scare me into thinking now this ascites is going top get me. Where did you read or hear about the longevity with ascites?
we sure are in a big mess granny, aren't we?
god bless Sandy

By Granny888
Posted October 15, 2009 at 11:38 am
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Well I saw the doc this morning and he says my lungs are coarse and if I have ascites it is too small for office visit diagnosis, so don't worry for now -- the liver appears normal.

I never learned the wave either but I do know if you poke one side and it goes fluid like to the other it is ascites. You need a lot of ascites to reach that point, however, you can have a little and not be able to see anything except in an xray or ct scan. I am a little puffy otherwise -- I never have been before, ever except for sometimes my feet after a full shift (12 hours) at work, and even that wasn't often just on a really busy on your feet night.

What I wanted to hear was yea, I had mets in my liver and ascites and the mets went away and once the ascites was drained it did not come back. Or even no, the liver cleared up but since the ascites was malignant it's still a problem. ANYTHING.

So he prescribed some hctc and said have a nice trip ... and I will. There could still be a problem but not enough of one to slow me down. He also said I'm definitely anemic but not bad enough for a transfusion.

By cuddles53
Posted October 15, 2009 at 4:01 pm
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That was how I was treated with my fluid issues, by my pulmonologist, my oncologist and his nurse practioner, and also by the regular attending in the office. I finally got one of the best doctors in my small little town, not even in the big cancer center. he took a look at my feet, and listened to my lungs, and said yea, I think it could be a blood clot in the right leg, we will have a doppler done, but he did say he really thought it was congestive heart failure with lung failure. This is something that is worrisome, do you realize how fast we can go down hill with this one? Wow just finally fighing off the lung cancer, and now this. I had so much trouble breathing, I had been staying in the house and sleeping so much, no wonder. I made th stupid mistake of loooking up pulmonary HTN and CHF, even though I know what it is!! I am agfin worrying over this now. It never ends, I am so disgusted with myself. The one good thing is no blood clot, I was all worried that would be a big issue too. The HCTZ did not help me, until he switched it to the combo HCTZ with spironaldactone. Now there is an improvement in both the breathing and my feet swelling has gone way down, so it helps.
God bless I hope we get better someday granny. What is going to become of us?
Since we both have the same problem do you think it may be commona dnyou and are are gettign worried over nothing, the doctors don't seem so concerned, and why is this? Is it because we are end stage anyway, or is it because this is just another road block that qwe will be helped for. this docotr did tell me I will live 5 to 10 more years until my heart and lungs give out, he lso told me from the reports he think my cancer is cured! That was a shock. a first for anyone to ever say anything like this to me, a positive note finally about something. I don't believe I will last that long with these lungs. Not with flu seasons and pneumonia. I think you and I are in the same boat and sinking quietly.
I will go down with the ship. There will be no red flags upon my door.. God bless Sandy

By misself
Posted October 15, 2009 at 4:09 pm
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Granny888 I did see a patient withascites from a kidney failure.Dr pulled it off,changed meds and it didn't come back.Later she was on dialysis.I was a nurses aide so all I know it wasn't cancer.The next patient,My mom had nephritis and malignant hypertension not cancer.She was in a study at Geogetown University in the 60's.she had ascites for over a year,then they found the right med and it went away.They did a lot of new drugs.She ended up not doing well with the idea of dialysis.But back to you.I say go on the trip.Chicago does have help if you need it .Brooklynda lives there and others so they can even help if you need a name.I was thinking and you and cuddles did more med surg than I can't anemia cause a little fluid retention in some patients? Anyway go and Wow them in Chicago,you will have a blast and no problems.Prayers AndiB

By cuddles53
Posted October 16, 2009 at 12:16 am
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Dear AndiB,.
I can't think why anemia would cause ascites, or any fluid retention, if it does it has to be something i overlooked. There ARE SO many reasons for it, liver, heart, lung failure are only a few, poor nutrition with low albumin counts. Poor intake of protein in the diet will cause fluid to leak out of vessels and into tissues. Blood clots cause fluid to build up in the lower legs or away from the site of the blood clot. I can go on, and on with rationale for swelling and ascites.
I just also want to know how to get rid of it. I am taking a water pill that is helping. I am hoping there wil be some kind of medication I can go on to fight this now.
Take care Sandy

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