dad is having trouble with pain meds

Hello all, it has been a while since i have been on here as life is handing us alot these days. after chemo & radiation dad is having alot of pain that the docs can't figure out, he is now on morphine which makes him act very strange. had to call ambulance other night he was throwing up and in lots of pain. he is still in hospital now, they did a colonoscopy this morning and after it he was really bad, they are not sure if it was meds or procedure that set him off today. they have him restrained because he keeps trying to pull out ivs and he wants out of bed....has anyone had experience with anything like this? he has always had problems with pain meds, so we are wondering if there is anything else for him to try. we just want him to be comfortable and if possible at this point to be somewhat with it..i know he didn't go thru all of the chemo and radiation to spend the time it got him in the hospital. his docs say the chemo worked well and as of now they see no cancer and they think the pain is caused by scar tissue??? but what can be done for scar tissue?
thank you

By jj803
Posted September 28, 2009 at 9:36 am
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Hi,

I am sorry to hear about your Dad's experiences. Cancer free is good, but what sounds like non functional is not much of a solution. I don't know what may be done about scarring and would rely on your doctors for their advice and wisdom on this issue. As far as pain meds go, there are many, but many are relatives of morphine. I expect, but don't know that at the doses needed to relieve the pain they might have similar side effects. Many hospitals and communities now have physicians who specialize in pain management and these may be of help in this case. Best wishes,

JJ

By Karego
Posted September 28, 2009 at 9:37 am
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Kay1330, Sorry your Dad is having such a tough time. The pain meds may indeed be the wrong type for him. Keep at the doctors to try others or to change the dosage.
It is so vital to be able to talk and be listened to by the medical staff treating us. In past posts and replies, you were encouraged to be good advocates by learning what treatments were available to you and to seek the best in experienced medical centers of bladder cancer.
Managing pain should not be such a difficult task for the professionals. When patients have unfavorable reactions, they should be attentive and pro active in alleviating the situation.
As for scar tissue, they should be addressing that also. Diet and possible surgical intervention are two things to consider. You are seeking solutions, not just reasons for the pain.
Karego

By Cheyenne
Posted September 28, 2009 at 8:07 pm
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How old is your Dad? May I ask? As far as pain meds go, well first let start by saying that it is obviously important to determine where the pain is coming from. If it is something that can be fixed, well, that may need to be done. Sounds like his docs are already doing that. But please do not despair. First of all, pain management is achievable, although not necessarily with drugs along. A pain management center or specialist may need to be consulted. Pain is different for everyone. I nearly pushed my friend and dentist through her window once, dental pain I just cannot handle and she has to max me out on the anesthetic and even that does not always work. Once a punched my urologist in his gut with my elbow while he was checking my prostate. We're still friends. I think he learned something about pain. I had warned my dentist and my urologist ahead of time that pains meds don't work well for me and that I sometimes react violently with certain pain. Frankly they both deserved it because they just did not listen to me. And yes she is still my dentist. I can't have nitrous oxide because it causes grand mal seizures, another lesson that a different dentist learned. But neither of us knew that would happen. Was not his fault. So don't got annoyed with your Dad if he reacts to pain. His responses may not be something he can control.

With regard to drugs, well, morphine does nothing for me, some tequila works better. Most opiate derivative drugs like codeine, and morphine and such, even the synthetics have virtually no effect on me. The more serious opiate drugs work and the best one can only be used in a hospital and it can cause bleeding problems so lots of docs don't like to use it. I tell them them to use it anyway and manage the bleeding as best you can and if you can't well then it's not your fault. But once I am under anesthesia I have no control over what orders they give the nurses. Usually they start with Morphine and I rip everything out of my my body that I was not born with. I ripped out lots of staples in my gut once because of that. They did a better job afterward, with the pain that is. So some drugs just don;t work, period. And some work but are not safe. So you end up with the opiate derivatives and they work nicely but can cause lots of interesting things to happen, like hallucinations, and other funny things that are not really funny, only in a sitcom. And they are addicting. If you're old enough who cares?

I have to take five, yes, five as in 5, drugs for seizures. If I take a high enough dose they work nicely, but it is not a safe dose and I start to act a bit unusual as in delirious. Funny for me, not so funny for my wife. I prefer polypharmacy because you can use lower doses and get a better effect. With pain meds it can be out right lethal so the problem becomes this: which ones work, what are the safe doses, which one can be combined safely, and on and on. So, your poor Dad is a lot like me. But the bright side (there really is always a bright side) is that pain can be managed, it is a matter of, well, for lack of a better word, experimenting to see what works. A pain specialist is what he needs I think. Ask his doc about that. And for after care there is acupuncture, TENS, biofeedback and lots of other things. They will get it right. Unfortunately it takes time. I wish your Dad the best. Don't call 911 when he starts breaking windows and beating on walls, it's not him, it's the meds. And if, that is and IF he has a seizure disorder as I do, well, anything can happen. Be gentle with him. But put the pressure on his docs to get him comfortable. They have a responsibility to do that. But don't beat on them either, it is no easy task. I feel for you, but it will all work out.

By Cheyenne
Posted September 28, 2009 at 10:41 pm
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I just thought of something. Have they tried Dilaudin for your Dad's pain? It is the only one that works for me. It's a narcotic too, but it works very well. I always tell them ahead of time that's what I want. It can be a problem with bleeding though so some docs don;t use it. Personally, I think it's fine, control the pain, deal with the bleeding with vit. K . Easy fix in my mind.

By kay1330
Posted September 29, 2009 at 10:35 am
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thanks everyone for your fast responses it is so appreciated. dad is 69 years old. today he is feeling ok and is not seeing things that aren't there, he was watching tv that was not on yesterday. they took him off morphine and now he is on norco and they tripled his dose of nerve meds(garbasomething). like you, cheyenne, he has always had trouble with pain meds. he tends to dream really crazy things like people chasing him and trying to cut off his arms and legs. this is the hardest thing i have been thru watching this horrible thing taking him away from us. we know that he is terminal, we just want him to enjoy what time he has. the doctors are talking about a pain clinic, so hopefully they can get him under control so he won't have to go to the hospital again, he really does not like the hospital. they did a brain scan and the colonoscopy also did a bone scan and they see nothing so this is great. hoping for him to come home today, we'll see. thanks for being here.
kay

By lsh
Posted September 29, 2009 at 12:29 pm
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So glad to hear that things are better with your Dad today. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get pain meds just right. Sounds like his docs have done that. Let us know how he does now.

Cancer free is awesome!

Lynda

By mendo_lady
Posted September 30, 2009 at 7:52 pm
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Hi Kay1330

my mom at age 69 had weird side effects to morphine while in the hospital. Very bad/major/Alot of hallucinations - basically was a totally different person. any new nurse thought she had been admitted with dementia but we had to state "she wasn't like this until you gave her morphine" - we finally convinced the doc to lower her dose, it did no good. Unfortunely, for pain, morphine is the prescribed choice. She was always worse at night - they had an alarm on her bed and then had to have someone stay in her room 24/7 - I can tell you - when she got home and was off the morphine and on percocets - no problems - talk to doctors about his meds - they also say that some people react strange to hospitals at nite - they called it "sundowner" .

Good luck and stay hard on the docs - maybe look into alternative pain management

By EG-NJMason
Posted September 30, 2009 at 8:51 pm
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When I had my heart transplant..i had no pain meds. When I had the RC they insisted that I have a morphine pump. They kept insisting that I was in pain (I wasn't) and that I push the pump (I did.. what did I know !)

I warned them I have a terrible reaction to morphine as did my parents. But they put it in anyway. Somewhere along the way I gained control of my senses and just said "yea yea" when they said to push the plunger and just pretended.

Within a few hours I felt great.

That's MY experience.. MAYBE your dad doesn't need the morphine ??

Welcome to Inspire!

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