NSAIDS NOT GOOD FOR GP?

By papaya10
Posted today at 10:09 am
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Yes Dave, within 5 years of onset of Diabetes most Diabetics develop some degree of GP due to high levels of ADMA blocking Nitric Oxide Vasodialation. I repeat again, Gastroparesis is secodary to dyfunctional hemodynamics!

Interestingly DaryIK mentioned the use of Viagra (another Nitric Oxide promoter)for Diabetic Gastroparesis having some success. I read the study with some humor. L-Arginine supplement is actually more safe and affordable. Patriots stand erect!

Yesterday I uncovered a study that indicated that long term runners get serious cases of Ischemic Colitis. Apparently there is a natural shunting of blood flow to the exoskeletal muscles performing creating what they call a transient ischemia in the gut. Here is a cut:

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/758674-overview

"Case reports exist of marathon runners developing ischemic colitis following a marathon that resolved in most runners with supportive treatment."

Of course transient ischemia of the gut flows is increased by marathon (long term) efforts. More is not always better. Some is essential.

In addition your brilliant input on NSAID Nambumetone is a very important factor in your case that should not be dismisssed. All NSAIDS should be off limits for persons suffering gastroparesis symtoms as intestinal blood flows are reduced and inflamation increased. Good call Dave! NSAIDs are an ischemic factor that contributes to gastroparesis!! Aspirin, ibuprophen, ketoprophen etc. are no good for us. L-arginine on the other hand has the antiplatlet desireable blood thinning factor and is vasodialtor..a better natural amino acid choice than aspirin for GP sufferers since low blood flows make our condition worse!

There is a lot to learn Dave. Thanks

Papaya10

Edited April 6, 2010 at 4:23 pm

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20 replies. Join the discussion

Very interesting, and I have heard about the nitric oxide connection. I had known that viagra was sometimes used for Gp, but also, I believe that there is a pharmecutical company researching nitric oxide for GP. The link to it is here.....

http://www.amuletpharma.com/techplatforms.html

Also, and I do know that things like aspirin and NSIADS are bad for us GPers, or for any stomach condition. I do get migraines so I have to take advil SOMETIMES, but I do not take it as much. However, I have thought MANY times that if advil (NSIAD) is an ANTI inflammatory wouldn't it possibly make it better (provided there was no ulcer)? I have heard of ppl going on prenisone (an actual steroid) and feeling better. Anyone know why that is. I am ALWAYS interested in learned, b.c sadly, not enough ppl are, although I am very glad there is research.

Love,

Lauren

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Dear Lauren

Prednisone actually lowers NO (nitric oxide) which may be counterproductive to desired goal of increased abdominal blood flow for GP sufferers. However Prednisone also inhibits COX2(as Nsaids also do) and other inflamatory agents. Thus some pain relief at a cost for those hoping to get their GP into remission.

Papaya10

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Interesting. I do way better taking ibuprofen. It seems to shut off the acid pump or something. I spent a fortune on antacids and pump-inhibitor drugs. Nothing. 200mg of ibuprofen and I'm better. For circulation, I swear by foot massages. I can't explain it (don't want to, really, lol) but they truly help me. For acid relief I mix baking soda and water then chase that with club soda. The club soda makes the baking soda and water rise up my esophagus and helps relieve acid and prevent more damage.

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Seattle,

Naturally a NSAID has temporal improvement by pain supression while at the same possibly time creating long term problems including ulceration and inflammatory colitis. GP sufferers should also understand that gastro parietal intrinsic factor for absorbing Vitamin B-12 is effected by antacid and protonix etc and eventually B-12 deficiency can result. So get that Cobalmin B-12 shot from your Doctor every couple months at least. I used to jsut chew up some tums and just swallow them without water (saliva only). Then I would brush my teeth and go to bed. Do not drink anything else on top of the tums chew application.

I had GP for over 10 years and noiw am in conplete remission. I have some alternative therapy that absolutely worked for me. See discussion "Getting over your GP" .

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Papaya,

Your and Dave's recent postings are of much interest to me. Quite a few months ago, I posted a discussion "Success Curing GP" and like you by experimenting on myself I found natural means to cure my severe GP over 10 years ago and have only had one relapse and that was when I took NSAIDs for back pain!

I got my GP originally on the back of a serious injury where I had to take lots of Motrin. I told every doctor back then that I was sure the NSAIDs caused my GP. They all flatly denied it as being possible!

Coincidentally, I had a vascular screening workup recently and was found to have "stiff" arteries or what has been explained as epithelial dysfunction. I have very low BP and body temps even with good thyroid numbers. The holistic cardiologist I've been going to suggested taking L-Arginine to increase my NO which will hopefully dilate the arteries!
I bought some and have not started it yet as I've been nervous about the N.O. effect, but after reading your success with it, I am ready now to start it. The cardiologist, Dr. Davis, of Track Your Plaque and the HeartScan Blog is a big fan of using L-Arginine and has had big success with it.

Need to read all your articles and postings more indepth when I get the chance---but this is definitely a serious component for some people with GP.
Warm regards, Santa Fe

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Okay I will try this L arginine, but where does one buy it and how much do I start with etc? Do I need a script? I have also heard that N O helps one with asthma. I have both so I am happy to try this. I was going to start on some alleve as my family has such good results with it, Thanks for posting this, or I would have. My GP has been decent but asthma has not nor has a hip which is killing me in pain. I am tired of waiting for one or the other to flare.
Grateful in Cool Colorado, Gina

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Aloha Gina, I just sent a comprehensive letter to Lauren which you should read. Regarding L-Arginine and Ashma..it may be counterindicated according some studies I have read. Anyway, here is the chit I wrote this morning:

http://www.inspire.com/groups/agmd-gi-motility/discussion/nsaids-not-good-f or-gp/?page=last

papaya

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Aloha Lauren,

There are different formulas of L-Arginine being sold on the market today. My only experience is one called NOS which comes in a 3gram horse pill. It is a time released formula from Vitamin World. Their dose recomendations on the Bottle are wrong in my opinion due to some bad effects in studies I have read. Keep it to no more than three grams daily for starters. There is a powdered NOS supplement also but do not follow their directions. # grams daily.

The pill never resulted in any nausea for me. But what about GP patients who get nausea from drinking water? A standing pill of this size may cause nausea as anything would for such a supersensitive reactive GP patient. I used to take mine first thing in the morning. It is not inflamatory like NSAIDS. I have never read that it does "cause nausea sometimes". Could you share that cite with me? I have read countless articles on the subject.

These are the possible counterindications as I understand it due to the angiogenic and blood thinner nature of L-Arginine:

1.) use is counterindicated if taken with other serious antiplatlet (blood thinning )compounds like Warfin
2.) use may be counterindicated where herpes infections exist
3,) use may be counterindicated where diabetic proliferative retinitus exists
4.) use may be counterindicated with severe asthma cases
5.) use may be counteridicated in cases of cancer where the present treatment theology is to starve a tumor of blood supply.

L Arginine is a natural amino acid normaly in good supply in the body. For some reason that supply is adulterated in diabetics to form ADMA(assymetrical di methyl L Arginine). This is why diabetics are subject to strokes, heart attacks, gastroparesis, and other periferal circulation damage resulting loss of toes, feet and legs. But persons of African origin are also subject to high levels of ADMA and the survey of death etiologies shows increased strokes, heart attacks etc. And any of those guys that have to reach for that bottle of Viagra are likely low L Arginine candidates.

This is because when the normal supply of L-Arginine is compromised as we age our available Nitric Oxide drops creating transient ischemias(vasoconstriction) in the body globally. One does not think of their heart as "having a stroke" or even your intestines but they do on the catastrophic level just as your brain. This many times is due to what they call Non obstructive Vasospasm that would have been avoided if sufficient precursor L-Arginine was available.

I owe my remission from GP to numerous actions I have taken:

1.) 3grams tme release L Arginine daily
2.) avoiding caffeine and "power drinks"
3.) avoiding fight or flight anger yelling fear induced vasoconstriction
4.)avoiding low blood sugars and the resulting vasoconstriction
5.) moderate short but cardio level exercise every other day
6.) no vasoconstrictive NSAID's(they lower NO) or steroids on a regular basis
7.) Knowing that stress is my reaction and is vasoconstrictive. I conciously put on gratitude and joy counting the blessings from God and bless, not curse others
8.) Developing a good How, when and what to eat program of mid day main meal.
9.) I had Series of IM B-12 cobalamin shots to overcome effects of all antacids and protonix. I eventually discontinued antacids incrementally as wellness took over.

THis is not an overnight cure. It must be comprehensive to work. Keep in mind this principle I believe is central to my remission: gastroparesis is secodary to hemodynamic abdominal transient ischemias that can lead to infarctions if untreated(whether they be caused by heart insufficiency, vessel obstructions, or induced vasoconstriction and vasospasm from pharmacueticals, or from insufficient Nitric Oxide cascade.

There are other angiogenic therapy that are extremely effective involving IGF1(Insulin like growth factor 1) but this would be very expensive. Growth hormone is extremly angiogenic and you would need a doctor to perscribe the therapy. But if it were possible after individual careful patient review results, this would likely be dramatic without having to deal with the nausea problem. So you can try this other vasodialative suggestion under the care of your physician if he agrees. It is worthwile going through a series of metabolic tests from a competent endrochronologist if you have sufficient insurance. I no longer need this therapy. I am in full remission.

I wish you well

Papaya

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Aloha again Sierra,

Your post is very interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience. Bees can only make honey by sharing their gathered nectar back and forth with another. So your experience confirms this NSAID concern.

The type of L-Arginine supplement I took was one from Vitamin world called NOS. 1 horsepill a day of 3 grams. There are some bad L-Arginine formulas out there so beware. I shared a comprehensive remission path letter with Gina which was written to Lauren at another chit this morning. take a look at it when you have time.

Me ke aloha pumehana

papaya

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Sierra,

One other concern I would mention is your existing hypotension or low blood pressure. You may need to skip the L Arginine until you resolve why the low blood pressure. You might go too low with this additional supplement. Low flow states are not soley mediated by slack or supply of NO(Nitric Oxide). You need a complete heart and vascular workup as part of your hypotension search. L-Arginine is also couterindicated where Hypotension is concerned. Have you had this low blood pressure all your life? have you ever passed out? Areas of abdominal blood flows have higher resistance than the rest of your body, and there lies the rub and possible etiology of your gastroparesis from various affective factors. Beware of some alternative meds you are taking as some may be the cause of hypotension. Keep me posted. Great points do you make!

papaya Terry

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Sorry to call you Sierra Santa FE. Not even the same Mountain range..you would be in the Sangre de Christo range if you are in Santa Fe. Look for my Sierra post as a message to you regarding L arginine being counterindicated if you have low blood pressure already. How low does that pressure go? Don't want to limbo lower.

Papaya

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Papaya, thank you, I will copy this and take to my doctor before trying. My GP is doing very well at this time but I sure could use some help. What you tried looks useful but I will check with my doctor first. Glad you are over GP, good for you. We all want to hear sucess stories. Gina

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Santa Fe

I see from your site that you have Mitral valve prolapse. MVP is often associated with Gastroparesis and abdominal low flow states. The source of the low flow can be from deficient heart ejection factor, and thus the gastroparesis. A detailed heart workup and conference with a cardiologist may net a good plan for improved heart function. Perhaps this could be accomplished through a pacemaker if ther is any arrythmia. With and MVP Gastroparesis condition called Marfan's there are operations that are quite successful as opposed to other types of MVP conditions which have a higher failure rate.

I wish you well

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Hmm would be interested in the MVP relation never heard of any connection...Many thanks, Kim

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Papaya,

Thanks for your concern regarding the MVP and low BP. Since being on intense magnesium therapy, it has apparently cured my MVP---just had new echo and now I don't have ANY regurgitation nor murmur nor signs of valve irregularity. My ejection is 65 which is great. And I have no more arrhythmia.

I've been dealing with severe arrhythmia (PVCs) for over 20 years and all previous echos showed moderate regurgitation and definite MVP since childhood. Because of my severe arrhythmia, cardiologists wanted me to have ablation or pacemaker. This was not an option for me, so after lots of research I found that many people have strengthened their mitral valves and especially cured arrhythmia with intense magnesium therapy. MVP patients often are chronically deficient in magnesium because of a relationship with hyaluronic acid, collagen, and connective tissue problems that is too indepth for me to go into here. There is a large body of research showing the relationship with magnesium and muscle and nerve conduction. This is also why magnesium helped my GP so much--I posted studies on magnesium's influence on GI motility in my previous "success" thread.

Magnesium is a natural calcium channel blocker and is great for naturally lowering BP (it relaxes contracted arteries and balances calcium's contracting qualities), and since I tend toward low BP anyway, it unfortunately has lowered my BP even more. Cardiologist is not worried as BP responds well when needed to be higher, and I am not dizzy. Also I've been supporting my adrenals and now my BP is more stable, so I will try the L-arginine at a very low beginning dose of 500mg, and monitor my BP---and raise it slowly according to my BP response. Thanks for alerting me to this.

Could you share with us more detail of the changes that you experienced with L-Arginine? Beside the GP changes, did you notice anything else, and how quickly did you notice any changes? Did you notice your heartbeat increasing/intensifying at first, as that is a side effect of L-Arginine that shows up a lot on the HeartScan blog.

The brand I have now is by BlueBonnet and it is called "free amino acid". I hope it is not one of the bad ones.

Thanks for all your thorough info and commitment to this.
Warmly, Santa Fe

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Thanks Santa Fe. Very interesting about magnesium. I worry about magnum doses of anything though. Manesium is a reactive metal that could have unrepealable consequences. What was the name of your supplement and was there any other accompanying effective supplementation that might have been curative of your MVP?

Here is an interesting site that talks about the right "left" L-Arginine and how many of the formulas out there are wrong and even harmful. Not taking L-Arginine with NSAIDS was intereting too. I am not sure regarding the "scientific" evidence discussed. My success was from a supplement called NOS from Vitamin World and the adherance to my "go flow" solutions and avoidance of "no flow" influences. That formula is called L Arginine Alpha Ketoguterate. Initially I took two pills (6 grams) in the morning and almost immediately my diastolic (rest state blood pressure dropped from as high as 90 to 65-75 (vasodialation!). I also put away my CPAP machine and my sleep became more restful!

http://www.arginineresearch.com/ClinicalBenefits.htm#UnacceptableFormsofLAr ginine

I did not measure heartbeat at that time for changes. I am a minimalist when it comes to unnatural supplementation but am an insulin dependant diabetic of 41 years!!!! Wow. Still going strong thank GOD! But I also choose to ride the horse, not get drug behind it regarding diabetic monitoring, shots and moderate exercise.

I guess you are also aware of all the iron overloading and its horrible outcome for the recipents of misguided policies posoning and making sick sick many with MS, Parkinsons, Diabetes, Heart attack, Arthritis and even arterioscleosis. If only the public knew the double edged sword that essential element is!

Me ke aloha Pumehana

Papaya 10

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Aloha Kimba,

I have seen numerous examples of Hemodynamic abdominal blood flow being affected by cardio insufficiency. Dysautonomias including Gastroparesis are prevelent in cases of marfan's for example which includes MVP. The dysautonomias including irregular heart rates probably stem from insufiient blood flow perfusion to smooth muscle tissue iterstitial cells of Cajal. These are our body pacemakers that normaly control autonomic contractions of the heart(60 beats a minute) and digetive tract(peristaltic wave every two minutes). These little pacemaker cells are affected by transient ischemic condtions(low blood flow) including those from an insufficient heart ejection factor, as well as NO(nitric oxide) mediated deficiencys and atheroscloritic or thrombocytic blockages.
Gastroparesis is secondary to dysfunctional reduced blood flows and perfusion from whatever source. Below is a blatant example gastroparesis being resolved from restgored blood flows.

http://www.mdconsult.com/das/citation/body/193950140-2/jorg=journal&source= MI&sp=1242723&sid=0/N/1242723/1.html?issn=

I wish you well

papaya 10

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Aloha SantaFe

This is the statement you made that I would like to research in depth:

"MVP patients often are chronically deficient in magnesium because of a relationship with hyaluronic acid, collagen, and connective tissue problems that is too indepth for me to go into here".

If there are any followup "deepthreads" I am anxious to investigate!

Aloha mai

Papaya10

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Papaya,

Here is one good link to the MVP/magnesium/connective tissue relationship. There are many more on Google. Scroll down toward the bottom where it's titled "MVP and Hyaluronic Acid".
http://www.ctds.info/mvp1.html#mvp

Here is one that may be of interest for you regarding how magnesium can stabilize glucose and insulin levels and acts as a vasodilotor:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WB5-4K1G45R-1&_u ser=10&_coverDate=02%2F01%2F2007&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_do canchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1287391460&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C00005022 1&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=121d1ed1eca067afc869cc799832daab

Warmly, Santa Fe

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Thanks so much Santa Fe. That will give me something on which to chew, and hopefully digest!

Papaya10

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