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To Soy or not to Soy

maryk58
0 Recommendations

At least ten years ago I asked my oncologist if soy (which is a plant estrogen) was harmful to someone who had had bc with very high estrogen receptors. He said that he had not seen enough research to answer that for me. I wasn't really into soy at that time so I let it go. Since moving to California, I of course have been introduced to edemame (love it) and my Starbucks 'comfort' drink, tall mocha soy no whip'.
Now I have mets to bone and a couple weeks ago, I asked my PA the same question. She didn't seem to know about much research either, only told me about one study that soy was used instead of HRT to treat menopausal symptoms in women without cancer and the soy didn't seem to have much of an effect on hot flashes, mood swings, etc. So just to be on the safe side, I've tried to avoid soy as much as possible (also am lactose intolerant). Anyone have any more information or aware of on-going research? (Not to be whiny, but I bet if it were implicated in prostate cancer, we would have definite answers to this question by now. : )

Explore topics in this discussion:

Cancer Taxol Hormone replacement therapy Menopause Prostate cancer Breast cancer

9 replies

Deanie

I absolutely agree about the comparison between prostate and breast cancer!

The only food caveat given by my oncologist was about soy. I am ER+, only consumed soy milk and was almost addicted to edamame. Also because of the effects of menopause, I used a lot of estrogen-like supplements. He indicated the soy would be counter to the medication (Tamoxifen at the time). Truthfully, I never asked for more info. While I have not provided any hard research, hope this helps.

chloemom

I've read a lot about this because I'm a vegetarian. There is a lot of conflicting info but there are some pretty reputable researchers with references to follow.
This is what I've learned ... hope it helps.

Seems that we are safe to eat tofu, edamame and fermented soy products in condiment portions. This seems to be supported by those cultures who consume these products and have lower breast cancer rates than we do. The problem in the U.S. seems to lie in the fact that Processed soy is once again in everything and its the processed stuff that appears to be not so good for us to consume. There are some really good studies on this. The Campbells sociology
study of nutrition and cancer rates around the world have some great references about soy ... I can't think of the book title just now but will post it for you tomorrow.

One caution that I didn't find until I'd almost finished two rounds of chemo ... Not to eat tofu two or three days before and after Taxol tx .. I think the tofu reduces the effect of the Taxol ... too bad I didn't know this while I sometimes ate my Thai Tofu Curry as a comfort food following chemo!!!

Beachbabe

Part of my treatment 'team' is a naturopath with whom I consult on a regular basis. Since the cancer I have (notice I don't say 'my' cancer--its not mine, I don't want it!) is mega estrogen positive I was told emphatically that soy was not a good idea. I've also been warned away from a variety of things well meaning friends and fellow patients have suggested because they either interfere with my meds or mimic estrogen. I've learned that even the smallest change can have big ramifications if I don't ask first.

Peace~

Nursemets

Just wondering if anyone has thought about the effect of consuming soy products among our daughters. My initial breast ca was estrogen pos, now neg. My 19 year old daughter drinks a lot of soy milk and loves edaname. I initially encouraged this as I don't always trust what is in the milk supply (although I buy hormone free milk) she is away at college. Now I'm wondering if I should encourage her to get into almond milk or some other alternative instead. Oh the joy of trying to keep up with the latest ebb and flow of what to do to keep this crazy disease out of our lives and that of our daughters. Lori

chloemom

I so agree!!! My daughter is lactose intolerant and she was initially consuming lots of soy. She has switched to organic Almond and rice milks and loves the occasional coconut milk ice cream (thanks again Mena for that tip!) She has learned that sheep and goat dairy products don't bother her so she occasionally will use goat milk butter or a grated sheep dairy Hard Italian cheese (YUCK!)

And ... she has done a really great job of all things in moderation .... hopefully that moderation will be helpful to our girls when the next "bad" food is announced to us!!!!

cwoos4

Its funny that the doctor said "the soy didn't seem to have much of an effect on hot flashes, mood swings, etc " Well for me it worked wonders. My girlfriend went to China for a year and she swears by the soybean and tofu etc. Doctors do not want to comment on natural products because they do not make money off of it. Also alot of them are under contract with companies and are directed by contract not to comment or really discuss natural healing. How many of you asked the doctor about natural healing along with chemo. I bet the discussion didn't last long. I had 2 tours in Korea when i was in the army. My mamasan would always make her food at lunch and wanted me to eat with her or she would make me something for dinner. The korean culture eats very healthy. Dandelion soup and more soup and fish, rice, kimchee etc. Very little meat. The korean women have a very very low breast cancer rate compared to us in the united states and so does china. thats because they live in small villages and cook everything natural and most of them have never had fast food. (gee american going without fast food) lol. Also korea is a very poor country. Most of the koreans have a store fronts 12x12 and they live in the back of there store in a room 12x12 you would never think 10 people could sleep. they have no kitchen so they have there meals brought in from busness kitchens around the corner. Anyway i guess my point is I think soybean is ok in moderation just like everything else. I would only eat a small bag of trader joe edemame per week and my hotflashes and nightsweats pretty much stopped so i could get a decent night sleep.

Cindy

cwoos4

hi
just wanted to share this article with you.

The American Cancer Society: Protecting people or corporate profits?

Honest Health
Susan Wadia Ells PhD


In my last column I wrote about the overwhelming amount of research that shows how soy, especially fermented soy, protects against breast cancer. As I did this research, I noticed that the American Cancer Society, in its brochures and website, seemed stuck on the opposite idea; that soy is dangerous, or is at best useless in preventing breast cancer.

Where did their way out thinking come from? What is the basis for their anti-soy policy stance? I wondered.

Hundreds of millions of women around the world eat soy, (considered a phytoestrogen or a very weak form of plant-based estrogen), instead of using breast cancer drugs such as tamoxifen or aimidex . Like soy, these drugs sometimes can block or lower the body's strong estrogen levels; both are therefore used to help prevent a recurrence of estrogen positive cancer. For women, considered "high risk" tamoxifen, like soy, is sometimes used to prevent an initial breast cancer diagnosis.

In defending their "soy-is-dangerous" policy, the American Cancer Society's or ACS' Fact Sheets and web pages always quote something called, Implications of Phytoestrogen Intake for Breast Cancer, a review article written in 2002 and published in the American Cancer Society's Journal, Cancer , that looks at 180 studies on the subject of using soy or other phytoestrogens, such as flax seed, as a way to reduce or prevent breast cancer incidence.

So I decided I had better read this article, line by line, and find out specifically why the ACS remains so anti-soy.

The major thing I discovered, with this reading, is that the article misleads the reader in the initial summary by filling it with negative- sounding, hollow statements about existing soy research. "Interpretation of research studies regarding phtoestrogen intake and breast cancer risk is hampered by differences in dietary measurements, lack of standardization of supplemental sources, differences in metabolism amongst individuals, and the retrospective nature of much of the research in this area." Huh?

Meanwhile, the article itself supports the concept that soy is a good way for women to lower breast cancer risk levels!

In the last few pages of the article, another strange thing happens; out of the blue, the article begins to talk about the benefits of using tamoxifen or arimidex instead of soy, to help prevent breast cancer!

At this point a light bulb finally went on in my brain. " Implications of Phytoestrogen Intake for Breast Cancer" is not a review article about the known links between eating soy and breast cancer risk levels, but a staged commercial that trys to dismisses soy and promotes the use of tamoxifen and arimadex.

Why would the American Cancer Society, a non profit educational organization, want to mislead women about the natural benefits of eating soy or promote the possibly unnecessary use of specific breast cancer drugs?

My answer to this question arrived a few weeks ago when I opened up the New York Times to the front page article, "Medical Papers by Ghostwriters Pushed Therapy." It began, "Newly unveiled court documents show that ghostwriters paid by a pharmaceutical company played a major role in producing 26 scientific papers backing the use of hormone replacement therapy in women, suggesting that the level of hidden industry influence on medical literature is broader than previously known."

Is it possible that AstraZeneca, the manufacturer of arimidex, with sales of $1.8 billion in 2008 from this one drug alone, is concerned that women and their doctors may stop using arimadex and their earlier drug tamoxifen? Is it possible that AstraZeneca and the ACS are working together to promote these breast cancer drugs with false advertising?

If true, why in the world would our motherhood and apple pie organization, the American Cancer Society, want to mislead women and medical doctors about the documented benefits of eating soy?

I guess the answer to this question is probably "money."

With annual revenues of $1.1 billion, and net assets of $1.5 billion, the ACS looks more like a privately owned successful corporation rather than a non profit organization.

Tax documents also show that in 2008, AstraZeneca gave the American Cancer Society a $10 million grant, the largest annual donation to a non profit by a corporation in U.S. history.

Are the pieces of this puzzle falling together? Is it possible that the ACS, instead of being our largest cancer education and research organization is merely a paid public relations firm for AstraZeneca and possibly for other cancer related corporations?

I guess the morals of this story are many: Don't judge a book by its cover or an article by its abstract ; don't automatically trust an organization that you have grown up with;

Instead: follow the money and read the fine print; the life you save may be your own or your patient's.

Oh ... and eat fermented soy if you want to reduce your risk of breast cancer, because soy is good for you!

Susan Wadia-Ells, a wellness advocate, with graduate degrees in politics, energy economics and women studies, is founding director of the national nonprofit organization, Know Breast Cancer, www.knowbreastcancer.net. She also writes the blog www.thetruthaboutbreastcancer.com

maryk58

Thank you all for your insightful responses. It is all very helpful. I think that I would be comfortable eating edamame, and other non-processed soy products in moderation. From experience as a child being so lactose intolerant I was unable to digest anything processed: cow's milk, goats milk, etc. Fortunately grandma lived on a farm so I was given "raw" milk from my very own (isolated) cow and thrived on it. To me that's enough evidence that processing, homogenizing, etc can and does alter the chemical make-up of the food.

kleighk

WOW!!!!! I was eating soy products right after my first dx in 1994 (as a way to avoid hormone enhanced products) and was scared away from it by my then onco.
I have had several discussions with other docs and nurses and of course the info was always the same--Stay Away From Soy!!

I am so glad to read the above article, as it is something I have always suspected. I like soy milk and edamame and am taking a trip to Publix right now!!!

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