TREATING PAIN AND DEPRESSION IN SARCOIDOSIS

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I would like to thank all of you who so kindly and generously took the time to respond to my last journal, " INFLAMMATION AS THE CAUSE OF SARCOIDOSIS."

I had intended to delve more deeply into the correlation of the imbalance of bodily chemicals, created by stressors, thereby resulting in a totally out of control immune system attacking and overreacting to it's perceived threat, culminating in Sarcoidosis.

I'm also convinced that this phenomenon is genetic in nature. It's been in your family somewhere in the past. The inflammation in those of us who have sarcoidosis, seems to come and go. I feel that flares occur more often in people who through no fault of their own must live an overtaxed lifestyle in order to survive. We'll hopefully be able to discuss this further at a later time.

Sometime in April, with accelerating pain in places I had never experienced pain before, I decided that I would take control of my health care in a way I had never done before.

You've all read my opinion of my unnecessary lung surgery. This time would be different. I would question the efficacy of my doctors' diagnoses. I wasn't going to just take their word for anything without at least doing my own research and if necessary, getting a second opinion.

The first doctor I saw was a rheumatologist. He was what we wish all of our doctors could be; smart, kind, extremely cognizant of all I'd been through, very thorough in his examination and as far as I could tell, extremely knowledgeable in his field of medicine. My diagnosis was Fibromyalgia.

He suggested Lyrica, but also stated that he did not feel that the huge list of side effects warranted taking the drug. I tried it for a few days and could not function at all while taking it. I had extreme dizzy spells and did not want to take it any longer to see if symptoms would go away. The drug was miserable for me. He suggested that I remain on the pain medications that I was already taking for chest wall pain due to the lung and chest surgery I had in 2004. This works fine for me along with a heating blanket and hot showers(a hot bath is better) and sleep, lots and lots of sleep.

Next, I see a pulmonologist. He has all the qualities of my rheumatologist. I have a CTScan of chest with contrast. Sarcoid is still active, but not advancing as rapidly as last two scans, so no recommendation for me to take prednisone or any other drug, with the exception of inhaled Advair 2x per day. Also have Albuterol on hand in case of emergency. I have another appointment with him at the end of May to discuss a PFT that I have this week. Will let you know how this all comes out as I still have a lesion near my heart which could not be removed during surgery and I blame it for most of my center chest pain.

I need to interject here the severity of my depression. I am diagnosed with major depressive disorder-severe. This is not as a result of the surgery or of any other traumas I've experienced, although being operated on needlessly and having Sarcoidosis certainly does not help me in my daily battles with my depression. I am missing some of the chemicals in my brain that the rest of you have that enable you to cope better than I do when faced with adversity. My psychiatrist feels that the disease of sarcoidosis carries depressive cells that interfere with some normal people's brain chemistry. The disease and the surgery put me over the edge. The good news is that we finally got my medications right and this is the reason I am so concerned about making any changes.

I take 10mg of Lexapro 2x per day. This is an antidepressant with minimal side effects. I also have severe panic, anxiety attacks. For this I take 1mg of Xanax 3x per day if needed and I rarely need to take that much.

For pain, I take VicodinES one tablet every 12 hours if needed for pain and I try to do without taking as much by substituting Aleve when I can.

Next doctor I see is a psysiatrist, a doctor of physical therapy. EGADS NELLIE ! WHY I went along with this one, I'll never know. Believe it or not, I will go to PT but, this doc wants me to try just about everything but weight lifting and I would love to be in the shape I was in just 5 years ago, but my health has changed quite a bit since then. He does all the talking and I do all the listening. I take my script and nod my way out the door.

Next doctor I see is a Pain Medicine Doctor. He has the type of personality we all love to hate. He tells me that I most likely will become addicted to the Vicodin, but he offers me no alternative. He then skips over to his ideas on Fibromyalgia. He suggests Lyrica. AHA... I've got him on this one. I tell him I've been there, done that, got the Tshirt.

Pain doctor then mentions tricyclics, (you gals sure know what you're talking about). The only problem I have with this is he mentions Elavil 10-50mg and I remember back as that being the medication my uncle was taking when he committed suicide. I automatically drift back into head-nodding mode.

He also mentions Pamelor 10-50mg and I think it was at this point that my eyes started to glaze over. To my knowledge, he's just mentioned two of the oldest tricyclics on the market today. Cymbalta was never mentioned nor was Plaquenil. I left there with a prescription for Flexeril, a muscle relaxant, that doesn't do squat.

I go home and call my psychiatrist to ask her opinion. Her suggestion is to keep things as they are for now. She explains to me that SSRIs like the Lexapro I've been taking, prevent or slow down the reabsorption of serotonin. Tricyclics, on the other hand impact both serotonin and norepinephrine, and also have far more side effects than SSRIs. And, Michele, I don't know what Plaquenil would add to the mix, but I will certainly ask her. And, Pam, she has mentioned the possibility of changing the Lexapro to Cymbalta which is another SSRI, but I do believe she is hesitant to change medication when I am doing so well on the Lexapro and Xanax.

My psychiatrist is the best physician (whose care is absolutely the finest) I've ever seen. She asks me constantly if my pain is under control. We have at least one hour of talk therapy per month.

She seems to believe in treating all aspects of a disease and does not believe that one pill can cure all. She also makes a genuine attempt to prescribe medications noted for lesser side effects.

I feel my depression is totally under control. She does not agree with me, believing and telling me that I could be even better.

We've all suffered enough with this nasty disease. If you're in pain, find a doctor who will treat your pain. If you're depressed find a doctor who will treat your depression. Put yourself as your #1 priority. Maybe that is the real cure for this and any autoimmune disease. Throw away all that is toxic to your good health. Be Well My Friends... JanetG

10 replies

Hi Janet.
New Years Day 2005 I woke up with literally head to toe arthritis. Arthritis didn't occur to me because I didn't have arthritis prior to that day (didn't recognise the warning signs prior to that). Anyway, that involved horrible joint aches, burning inside from head to toe, sweating like I was a water main that burst and so on. Because until recently It was assumed I must have some sort of auto immune problem (even though blood tests were negative) and I refused to take prednisone, I was given a choice of Plaquenil or Salazopyrin. Both can be used, I believe, for general inflammatory conditions. I wish the Salazopyrin did more but it definitely helps keep the arthritic pain and the boiling blood under some sort of control. I still have flares and I still ache but I'm so very much worse without the Salazopyrin. I get Fibromyalgia type aches and tender areas too (just lumped in with the bigger problem for me) and that's somewhat diluted with the Salazopyrin. Alters your liver blood test results and you feel a bit sickish and headachy for the first 6 weeks but then that disappears and you feel fine. Maybe that would be worth asking about as a general anti-inflammatory medication when you ask about the Plaquenil. I take Voltaren as well most days but the Salazopyrin does so much more than the Voltaren.

Hi Janet

You mentioned lack of certain chemicals in the brain? Did they diagnose bipolar disorder? I also have suffered with major depression for years. I have been diagnosed for many years with bipolar type II (predominantly depressive as opposed to manic). One thing that I do know is Tricyclic antidepressants should not be given to people with bipolar. I was given Nortrypteline before the docs knew it was bipolar and it nearly drove me out of my mind. It gave me this serious impulse to harm myself and I had to be put in the hospital to get off the tricyclics. Later, an unknowing doc prescribed me Elavil when I was about 21 for migraine pain. I did not know that it was a tricyclic also, and one pill nearly sent me over the edge.I had to sit and ride it out until it was out of my system. It was really ugly!

I have been treated for years with a med called Zonegran for my depression (300mg daily) and it has worked wonderfully. As far as i am concerned it gave me back my life. about 4 months ago, I was given Neurontin for all the sarc pain as my doc told me that he could no longer prescribe narcotics for chronic pain. I had been taking 2-7.5 mg vicodin every 4-6 hrs. He put me on the Neurontin and gradually got me up to 900 mg daily. It has worked amazingly for my pain (though it has not cured the numbness in my nerves.) leaving no periods of breakthrough pain like narcotics do. Neurontin is also a type of antidepressant. I ended up having to stop my Zonegran as the 2 meds together were too much. However, the neurontin handles both my major depression as well as my sarc pain all at once.

Perhaps you should speak with your doc about starting Neurontin? I had also been taking Tramadol and Clinoril with the vicodin and nothing had helped the pain until the Neurontin!!!

Hope this helps you some!!!

Be well

Dawn

Janet, if you feel your depression is managable then you know yourself better then anyone else. I have sarc in my lungs, eyes and under my skin. I also have fibromyalgia. I treat people with chronic illnesses as a psychotherapist. One thing is never let a dr put you on cymbalta while you are staying on lexapro. Both increase seratonin and people get toxic on too much seratonin. So if a dr tells you to stay on lexapro and adds cymbalta be very cautious. It is usually one or the other. Maybe an over lap while a person is being switched while reducing one and increasing the other at the same time. But not staying on both. The only antidepressant that can be added to one with SSRI safely is Wellbutrin since it works with a completely different neurotransmitter. The old tricyclics have many more side effects than the newer ones. Especially weight gain. I am not a doctor and I do not prescribe medications. I have read up on them and take courses in them so I can have some knowledge of them for my clients care.

I use something called Cognitive Behavioral therapy with my clients and myself. I tell them about a book called the The Feeling Good Handbook. There are several other books out there that utilize CBT as well. Some clients I have refuse to try anti-depressants and would rather use CBT instead or ideally they use both meds and CBT. The theory of CBT is that our thoughts dictate our feelings. So if we can change our thoughts we can change our feelings. We know that an increase in positive thinking can also increase seratonin just like physical exercise does. So CBT is a good adjunct to taking an antidepressant. Also seeing a psychotherapist that works with people with chronic pain might be a good member of your treatment team if you can fit it in to an already busy doctors schedule. The use of guided imagery and other techniques like that can help reduce pain. Good luck and keep sharing. Pamk

Finally I'm me again, or close to it...
I don't know about anyone else, but I finished my prednisone and wiped my hands of it. I have been in constant pain (hip mainly) for the past 6 months with no relief except the prednisone. Which by the way caused me to gain about an additional 20 lbs on top of the 25 lbs I had gained from not being able to move or exercise due to the pain. I was having nervous fits, loosing my temper and getting very emotional from this drug. I have been taking Raw Apple Cider Vinegar and my pain has not come back. I've been taking it now for 3 weeks. This is my new miracle. I am back exercising and STRETCHING. I haven't been able to do that in I don't know how long. Please read up on this Raw Apple Cider Vinegar for yourself and include in your diet. I use Bragg's it has a low acidic percentage and is considered one of the best by Holistic doctors.

Sorry to hear about your troubles Janet. I hope that you are aware that SSRI's like lexapro can lower bone density. This might be a complication for you if you have to go on the prednisone. I am not sure if this is as big an issue with inhaled steroids, so it would be a good idea to get a bone mineral density test now to keep track as you continue to take the lexapro. I agree with everyone who says its better not to mix psychiatric drugs; if lexapro doesn't do the trick for you, then try another SSRI rather than mix and match these drugs. This is especially true since you are taking other types of drugs; too many things to worry about! Then you won't know where the next side effect is coming from--this drug, that drug or the sarc. Keeping things simple is best.

Dear Dawn,

For me, no mania, just severe depressive disorder.
Tragically, all types of mental illness run through my family on both maternal and paternal sides.

I get so frustrated trying to defend the issues that a mentally chemically imbalanced person faces that I hesitated to bring it up here.

I know how the majority of people think, that you are somehow faking it or that it's all in your head (ironic because it is) and that you should just suck it up and deal with all issues in the way that mentally healthy people perceive as the correct response...

Sadly, for me, this is another battle I must fight, as I was in denial most of my life. I suffered in silence because I was too proud and I was going to be the one member of my family who escaped the curse of mental illness. I failed, the genes took over.

If I had seen a psychiatrist prior to my lung surgery, I probably would have said no to the thoracotomy. I'm almost certain of it.

Isn't the stigma attached to this disease just horrible?
For the record, my psychiatrist was talking about a change from lexapro to cymbalta. Not combining the two, but one or the other. I am so much better since taking the lexapro plus the xanax, that a change in meds is frightening to me.

Trust me, Dawn, I was in a dreadful emotional shape after the surgery. I still have the pain issues,
and the vicodin is prescribed for the chest wall pain resulting from that nasty surgery with the middle lobe of lung removed and center chest mass removed, more than the fibromyalgia or sarcoid pain.

It was an absolute horror for me to realize that most of you received a mediastinoscopy in lieu of the rib splitting, disfiguring thoracotomy I was convinced I must have performed, convinced by an internist, pulmonologist, and thoracic surgeon.

I am happy for all of you who did not need to suffer through it. The only good to come out of it for me was that I finally had to face my demons and seek psychiatric care.

Your comments about neurontin are well taken, Dawn. One of my doctors have mentioned it, but I forget which doctor and in what context it was brought up. Admittedly, I have a long way to go emotionally and physically. I am struggling with all of this.

The one thing I will not do is submit myself to prednisone. Our youngest cavalier spaniel, Lucy (on the left in the picture) has recently been diagnosed with a type of lung disease similar to Sarcoid and the Vet wanted her on prednisone. I refused, as she was on it a few weeks, got no better,and developed a huge stomach. We weaned her off of it.

She's also been on a bronchodilater which makes her manic as hell and she runs around the house all night long like a miniature Cujo. Needless to say, we're not giving her that drug anymore. Benadryl seems to help, but I won't lie. I'm worried about her.

I need to go now, but thanks for your suggestions and for being a helpful friend, Hugs... JanetG

HI Janet, I just want to clarify that I didn't mean to imply that you should add Cymbalta to the Lexapro. That is very dangerous. My comment had to do with the reference to pain and how Cymablta was designed to reduce pain and treat depression. I am not advocating it either as it is a very individualized decision. You say your depression is under control so if it works don't fix it. As I mentioned in a prior response there are other ways to increase seratonin through cognitive behavorial therapy, exercise and positive thinking. I have never tried cymablta but know people who have. Half say it helped with the pain and about half say it didn't. Taking an SSRI with Cymbalta will cause a toxic effect of too much seratonin and is dangerous. A psychiatrist would be the best dr to oversee this if you decide to try it. No one can decide this but you. Good luck.

Dear Pam,

It wasn't your comments I was referring to. In fact I'm a fan of your well written, common sense approach to this disease. I search out your posts and I'm always flattered when you write to me.

I'm sure with the fine education you have that you are knowledgeable about the trauma the brain goes through in anticipation of, during (despite heavy anesthesia), and after major surgery. Simply put, I am still suffering from the ramifications of that, the thoracotomy. It is also the primary source of my pain.

I also have osteoarthritis in spine and knees. My second knee surgery in 1998 grounded me from my flight attendant career until I officially retired in 2004.

I also have carpal tunnel in both hands. I had the right hand operated on in 2004. The hand was fine until last year. The carpal tunnel release surgery, for me, seems to be only a temporary repair and not worth the agony of the surgery. It could also be sarcoid related?

If you go back to my post, and perhaps I didn't explain it correctly, this conversation started because my pain management consultant doctor recommended, and I have it right in front of me in his handwriting, a switch to tricyclic antidepressants.

He states for the treatment of Fibromyalgia: Elavil 10-50mg,or Pamelor 10-50mg. He's indicating that I drop the Lexapro and take either the Elavil or Pamelor to treat my depression and Fibromyalgia pain. I tell him I've tried Lyrica (as you would know, the only FDA approved drug for Fibromyalgia) and that the side effects were dreadful.

He's the type of doctor who talks at you, instead of to you. I leave with a prescription for Flexeril 10mg, one every 8 hours for muscle pain.

He does not address the issue of my chest wall and lung pain, resulting from the surgery, nor does he address the chest pain I have, also resulting from the surgery where the surgeon had removed a mass of matted lymph nodes.

Pam, my surgery was 5 hours long. I spent 3 days in intensive care and close to another week in progressive care. All this for a sarcoidosis diagnosis that could have been diagnosed with a biopsy.

I want you to know that I am convinced that I have a fine psychiatrist. I see her at least once a month for one hour and I trust her totally when she prescribes medication for me. She has stated that she feels it is imperative that I am as pain free as possible as this is important for my mental health, the Lexapro and Xanax lifting my depression and panic.

The Cymbalta came up with another doctor, I can't remember who, as a SSRI that would treat both the pain and depression.

I realize I have a long way to go before I am able to accept what has happened to me and move on, but then, that's why I'm here connecting with fine people like you. This has been a difficult letter for me to write. I hope we can stay in touch. God Bless... Janet

Hi Janet,
sorry I haven't been around lately I did read your last post and thank you for sharing.
I can understand your depression as I am bi-polar. Diangosed in 1998 and have fought very hard to find the right combination of meds so I can function somewhat normally. I personally believe that those of us with mental disorders can never be truely normal but we can manage our illness if we know our limitations and lead a mostly normal and happy life. I currently take Tegretol for the mood swings, Lexapro for the depression, Trazadone for sleep without it there is no sleep for me. I very strongly believe that without the mind there is no physical health at all. If I had to choose I would have to choose my mental health and sometimes it feels that this is what we infact need to do, choose. When we get a physical problem it just adds to the mental problem. But without the mental stabilization we are lost! I too feel very strongly for my Psychiatrist as he is the only doctor actually willing to work with me and listen to my suggestions. At one point he asked me if I was the doctor! I hope you are feeling well today and just wanted to let you know there is someone who understands you:)

Dear Princess,

Are you feeling any better physically??

Thanks for sharing with all who read this. I like to think of any mental illness as the same as most any disease, treatable with medication and understanding.

The stigma is still out there but like so many other things in life, those who are unaffected need to learn in order to understand. Telling our story helps, don't you think?

Write me at our friend site when you're up to it. xxoo .. Janet

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